I was just wondering how Makoto is supposed to be played. I’ve seen a few match videos from SBO2 but that’s it. I just saw a lot of the move Karakusa used a lot and the punches. Can someone explain how you play as her? thx
I’ve been trying to purposefully lay off the Karakusa recently because I felt I used it as a crutch, but guess what? You aren’t going to win without it. Her only low combo isn’t safe when blocked( crouching lk>lp hayate), and alot of her moves are one hit “impact” moves, even her EXs, which can be randomly parried & punished. So, cheese karakusa until they prove they can stop it. Jump in MK and if its blocked, Karakusa> HP> HP Hayate. Immediately continue this cycle(starting with Karakusa) until they prove they know how to get out of it. On their wakeup, pressure them with crouching lk>lp hayate until you train them to block low, then try a crouching lk>EX Oroshi next time. Once you knock them down, the ball should be in your court. Try out EX Tsurugis very low to the ground any time you land a Hayate. Of course the Karakusa is key…
anytime you win in a air/air situation, dash up while the other guy is still coming down. Be ready with Karakusa(if they’re blocking) parry(if you know they’re going to dp) and crouching lk> lp hayate(if they throw attempt). Her problem is that she will not be consistent, you need to be close to do Karakusa damage, and it’s VERY hard to do on some characters.
PS, if you’re playing scrubby shotos, whenever you have meter and you see a fireball being thrown, then it’s a free super(SA2).
it is possible to win with out using karakusa.usually a good player just jumps away when they see basic karakusa set up and for the most part that almost always works. so then you take advantage of that and punish their jumping. one thing about makoto is there isn’t any solid strat with her. everyone has their own strats. just learn her pokes and karakusa set ups then anylise peoples reactions.
#1 thing you should do with Makoto is put your opponent on the ground. Her c.fp sweep isnt too bad, but Ken can super you if blocked and some ppl empty down parry so it can get you in trouble if you just throw it out there. I find the best way to put them on the ground is just dash in and throw forward or back throw.
Once someone is on the ground, for the most part you have the advantage. It’s always a guessing game, but once you play it enough you start to see the options you have and how to read ppl and see how they like to react.
So anyway what you can do when they are waking up…
You can karakusa them.
You can karakara them depending on if they quickrise or not, or if you backdashed or not. Someitmes I karakara right ontop of them let the LK wiff then they just wake up into the grab. It’s tricky if they like to forward parry a lot…
You can tick throw them. Best to use c.lk to tick becuase c.lp can be parried high or low.
c.lp is a good tick though when not on wake up.
You can do c.lk -> ex oroshi for an over head, or jsut stand jsut far enough away where only the tip of the oroshi will hit them. it is a deceptive move like that.
You can do her ex tsurugi right off the ground and it will overhead them too.
Most of her damage comes from the karakusa -> fp -> ex hayate combo, so putting them on the gorund is going to be your best bet to get the karakusa on them. Eventaully you will get good enough to dash in when you see wiffs and karakusa them, or punish wiffs with hayates to set up a post-hayate mix up.
Besides that, just learn how to play with both her supers since they are both useful depending on who you are playing against and you should do just fine.
Just wondering, how many matches against good competition can you win w/o the Karakusa? You probably can win(not saying you never could), but that’s kind of like Hugo winning w/o using Moonsault…I will say this, Mak is so strong sometimes you don’t even really need to use her SAs…just mix up her EXs/Karakusa well enough, your opponent can only guess wrong so many times before that “STUN” comes up.
Well, against good competion, you have to use the karakusa itself and the fear of the karakusa to defeat them. Some of your damage should come from them trying to escape the threat and you punishing them for it, the rest of the damage should come from the karakusa itself. I dont think its too easy to beat anyone who is decent with just one or the other.
On the topic of SA’s…
I used to think that too, but you really want to try to use her SA’s as much as possible if it is a guarnteed situation. Thats why I siwtched to SAII. If you got them in the grab and you have the execution to pull it off msot of the time, I’d say use it as much as possible. She is strong with out the supers, but when ppl figure out your little tricks to get damage here and there, you will need a good super to round everything out.
So which is the best SA for her? I use SA1 because SAII seems to be too slow unless you have the scenario that was mentioned with the fireball. SAIII…I don’t even know what that’s about…looks like some kind of power up.
Oh and also I was wondering…how come I see after the karakusa the hayate (that’s the qcf + P right?) twice a lot? Does that combo?
Switch between SA1 and SA2 based on the matchups. She has great EX overheads(ex oroshi and close to the ground tsurugi), so SA2 is great for using those as well. Personally, I use SA1 mostly against Yun, unless they’re scrubs, it’ll be hard as hell to land SA2 against a constantly GJ charged Yun. He doesn’t have that much stamina, so SA1 hurts him alot.
If you are just starting out jsut worry about SAI. You’ll be scrubbing SAII all day long for the most part. When you can link SAI and know how to properly set it up then you should move to SAII.
Karakusa after the Hayate is one option in the post-hayate mix up. Its not gaurnteed. If they have a dragon punch they can def hit you, they can jump away or just strait up so watch out.
in order to land SAII you combo it off karakusa>hp with your back to the wall and it can connect from almost mid screen. it also links off of a non ex oroshi with your back close to the wall midscreen at most and you can just go for hp>SAII if you wanna punish something. i personally use SA I against good players and SAII against a some shotos and scrubs.
and i think your talkin about karakusa>hp> ex or normal hyate that combos.
also when you land d.lk >hyate(lp) then the guessing games start. you have about a 2 frame advantage, you can go straight for a karakusa (most people see that coming and either attack back or jump away), do another d.lk>hyate(lp) (usually beats out alot of your opponents attacks except supers but leaves you open if they decide to block), or can jump and attack with what ever or ex fukage (if you know they’re gonna jump away). SA I links off of a hyate(lp) too with good timing but the damage is reduced like crazy i only use that combo if i wanna end a round.
mak has a whole lot of options with okizimes (opponent waking up) also. i’m just addin to some of the stuff haunts didn’t mention. MP makes a great meaty then you follow it up with a karakusa or if your fighting someone who sees that coming hp/clk > hyate, then theres c.lk> ex oroshi and one move i’ve seen arleith use alot it some of his older footage was f.HK hold (its a little dandy step) right before the meaty attack or even karakusa to provoke the opponent to try grab or reversal on wake up. lastly, just a plan old karakusa can work too with out the kara just make it look like your about to do a meaty or ready to block a reversal.
Makoto has a lot of tools at her disposal, and limiting yourself to one syle of play probably isn’t your best option. I’m not great with japanese players names, but if you have seen sbo 2001 you know where I’m going with this. After a connected hayate, you are at the advantage, FACE IT! Whether you have 2 frames more to work with or a little less, you’ve just succesfully got in their face. Most of the time, youll end up benifiting from makoto’s mixup as long as you stay unpredictable.
As far as I am concerned, your goal is to win the match. If winning the match requires a few quick ex overhead kicks or qcb chops (not good with the real names) then go ahead. As stated before, makoto is still useable without a full bar, so don’t get too conservative toward the end of a round.
I’m guessing that’s Izu. Pink Makoto, right?
n00b’s guide to how to play Makoto SA2- Guess right twice = teh win.
advanced guide to how to play Makoto SA2- Guess right once = teh win.
Makoto is bullshit.
heh don’t hate. you yun players shouldn’t be one to talk about cheapness, mr. genei-jin.
i’m guessing when you say “guess right” your talking about a lucky parry to karakusa, well if your totally concentrating on the match and manage to get the parry then is it really bullshit. it still takes proper positioning and you can’t always karakusa off of a parry. makoto doesn’t even need karakusa to win a match i’ve seen a match with chemyru(sp?) where he just instilled fear into the yun player and beat the shit outta him with hyate fakes > kara oroshi and alot of mix ups.
I don’t think you got the memo, Jeff.
wakeup = teh win
after 2-3 years of learning her, ive come to the realization that discussing setups and all her options isn’t really necessary. you dont have any solid options like the trinity(chun/ken/yun). you’re playing on instinct most of the time, and your trying to outwit your opponent. when you’re succesful by doing just the first thing that comes to your mind, then you know you’re good to go
heres some random fun stuff i learned:
c.mp gives you enough frame advantage to hit confirm hayate if your fast enough. easier on crouching since your +1. the advantage gives u options other than finishing hayate such as kara mixups and dash in stuff.
holding hayate at proper distances will cause throws to wiff. Chun-li is an exception cause shes a bitch(not sure about urien). i mean its not like its a good idea lol, but i do it if i know my opponent wants me out of his face and wants to throw. BAM hayate in the face.
jab hayate as an anti-air will not beat out most mediums, none of chun or urien’s air kicks, neither of the twins j.fierce, but good to kill divekicks at certain angles(even when their on the ground). most of shoto’s air moves will get knocked out of the air… if they parry your hayate, chances are you will end up on the opposite side depending on how high off the ground they parried your hayate.
the way i play makoto know borderlines on scrubby lookin, but i really sorta know what i’m doin! unfortunately im not good enough to win with one right guess so i have to make do with randomness… :sad:
I think everyone wants to get to the point where they can play off instinct, but until you know all her options in the first place you can’t do that. With any character you have to have some basic stratgey to get the job done. So, I dont think this talk is tottlay useless, but maybe you just take it for granted since you’ve been playing her for so long.
I don’t know Makoto very well, but I’ve seen her rip shit up with the opponent pretty much standing the whole time.
good point… sorry im just kinda tired of seeing new threads on the same stuff over and over again…
i know what you mean but 2 years ago I knew nothing and a lot of ppl gave me good advice on here and it helped. I feel obligated to reply to these threads becuase of that. haha
I suggest bugging the mods to sticky the basics so scrubs like me don’t keep making new threads (and don’t say search the threads, because oftentimes, the information is impossible to find). Uhm, another trick: Hayate(hold)cancel to karakusa on wakeup. Opponents may think your holding it to set up a hayate hayate combo, so they block and wait for that free super but you cancel to throw and hayate hayate them anyway.