Is mashing out a special move or command throw while your in ‘auto block’, because your opponent is attacking you and they may have a gap in a block string, a good tactic to use (perhaps sparingly) or a bad habit and why? Can you teach yourself to do a reversal on reaction very consistently rather than mashing and is this preferable (also online vs. offline)?
Same question with wakeup - bad habit?. (although I think this is much easier to learn to do with one hit of the buttons except when the lag varies.)
It’s both good and bad, depending on the type of character/player that you’re going up against. If your opponent is continually attacking while leaving gaps in their offense for you to do a reversal, go for it, plenty of lower-skilled players tend to fall for this.
But I do stress the term lower-skilled player, because once you start playing against some competent people, they will quickly learn to punish your mashing in a variety of ways. Some of them will just leave gaps in their attacks on purpose, and punish you with their hardest hitting combos. If they’ve noticed that you always mash a reversal on wake-up, they just won’t do anything, let you make your mistake, and punish.
Of course you can teach yourself to do a reversal on reaction, or with consistent timing, all it takes is practice. Practice in training mode to get knocked down, and try to make a clean input for a dragon punch or whatever, on your wake-up. The timing is VERY lenient, and combined with input shortcuts, reversal timing is pretty easy to do within 10 minutes of practicing.
After your answer, I think I can now more clearly define and articulate a few questions that I have, thx for that. There are actually 2 different subjects here I think. Going for a reversal and mashing as an execution tactic to make a reversal.
Let’s say your opponent makes an attack that you block that you will be able punish but only if you execute on the first free frame as a reversal. Obviously you want a reversal in this situation, everytime. Is there any advantage to learning to press the buttons on command once, rather than mashing?
I can do wakeup reversals pretty regularly in training mode. But with the variable lag in online mode, and in the heat of battle, I don’t get them very often online. I think your speaking of the wakeup reversals for doing them on reaction. Can you also teach yourself to do the block string reversals, and punish reversals consistently, online with the variable lag? I would think these would be like 1 frame links. For that matter, is doing 1 frame links consistently online feasible even if you can do them offline?
Mashing, implies that you’re wildly moving your stick and buttons with no pattern, trying to get something to come out. If you mean you’re pressing multiple buttons at once, with perfect and cleaning inputs with your stick, then that may be a good thing depending on what move you’re trying to do, and what you’re trying to punish. If you’re trying to press buttons multiple times, its called pianoing, and its a great execution tool. The biggest thing is that it provides consistency in your execution, so therefore if you make any minor mistake in your execution (ie you press the button or move the stick out of position so that you won’t get the move), your execution tricks can cover that. But I would definitely learn to do the command perfectly while only pressing one button, that way if you begin pianoing those inputs, you’ll increase your consistency in performing that reversal move.
The reversal window is pretty damn wide, so I’m surprised you’re unable to do it online. In that case, you might want to consider double tapping your buttons, or plinking your moves, to make them come out reliably. And yes, you can teach yourself to punish unsafe block strings, or baited reversals. It’s more difficult online due to lag, but as long as you’re ready for it, you can punish it. It’s a lot easier to react to something when you anticipate it, so if you’re expecting your opponent to do a random reversal, you’re ready for it, and you can punish it with no problem.
1f links are pretty difficult to get online. You could do it with perfect timing, but all of a sudden you get a minor lag spike, and you’ll miss your combo. Of course it depends on the quality of the internet as well. If you’re in Japan on a 50mb connection, it wouldn’t pose a problem. If your internet consists of using a dial-up connection, with a wooden modem, and aluminum foil-covered antennas…you’re best off sticking to basic combos that are easy to time.
There is a special window, but its pretty lenient on the timing. I believe on wake-up, the reversal window is 4 frames. I’m not sure what it is on block stun, but if you’re able to mash it out, its probably the same.
Yes, having an invincible reversal has value in a variety of situations, including tick throw attempts. Although its preferable that you have meter, so that you’re able to FADC out of it in case its unsafe, or for the potential follow up to land an ultra or another mov. For example, doing Ryu’s dragon punch FADC ultra1. However, you’re also able to crouch-tech attempted tick throws, for a much safer, and conservative response. If you’re on a defensive, a throw tech is considered favorable, since it puts distance between you and the opponent, and essentially ‘resets’ the situation
this thread looks like a good lesson but unfotunatly i dont get half the words u were using xD mind explaining FADC, reversal, and again is it good to mash lets say… MP to start a combo as the block frames are out? or do i need to specialy time it? wich is better?
pianoying is getting a… lets say Z motion +Mp repeatedly out of wakeup/block frame? do normals count?
Like Keres posted, check out the SRK glossary link, while you’re at it, check out ALL the posts stickied at the top of the forum.
I don’t understand what you mean by, MP to start a combo as the block frames are out. You mean you do a MP? You mean the other guy does an MP? If you’re starting a combo, and someone’s blocking, it’s not a combo.
Pianoing is pressing ‘lp, mp, hp’ or ‘hp, mp’, lp’ in a row, in very rapid succession, using your main 3 fingers. If you’re using a controller, then you can only piano two of those buttons with ease. I guess you could press a single button multiple times, and it will work for reversals, but it won’t work for timing your combos properly.
If you want a super simplified version of all of this…just stop mashing. Learn the proper timing, be it offline or online, and time all of your moves properly. Special moves, normal moves, links, cancels, reversals, just time it properly. Once you learn the base timing, you can start learn how, when, and where to mash anything, or do multiple button presses to provide some consistency to your execution.
meh sorry i knew i should have red the stickies… >,> after being in one forum a guy thinks he already knows everything >.<
anyway i meant starting my own combo after blocking an enemy’s attack as reversal MP and so on with the combo :> and i do learn the timing i already understand that mashing randomly is not good to say the least… but i was asking if mashing a single button like MP could provide me with an accurate reversal or is it better to figure out the exect timing?
Mashing during your opponent’s blockstrings/combos is a good way to get counter-hit. If you’re looking to punish on reaction to something your opponent does in a blockstring that’s unsafe, faster moves will be better; jab/short, DP, throw. Frame data can show you what your fastest moves are.
Aside from that, blocking is highly underrated by new players. Block a lot, and learn to look for openings in which to either escape or retaliate. In time you’ll get a feel for it.
i dont know if that means i shouldnt play makoto but for now i do better when im jumping and spaming the only two combos i learned so far… that i can actualy put in combat situation without thinking… umm while i block i usualy get throwed/overhead/etc… but there are some apponent i have developed a… reflex… like feilong that gave me alot of problems i block more against him.
P.S i think i know why newer players dont block alot… well they just dont know what to do with it lol… just like me >,<
Makoto is a difficult to use character, since her biggest strength lies in her deadly offense, and doesn’t much of a defensive game, but she can be rewarding to use. I wouldn’t just spam combos if I were you, since her combos (when blocked), can be punished. However if you’re landing hits, why not just keep doing combos? Your opponent doesn’t seem good enough to block your offense, so just destroy him. However, against decent opponents, they’ll find ways to stop your constant jump-ins and unsafe special moves. Good Makotos make use of her air tsurugi (sp? its that axe kick shit) to get close to an enemy, as well as bait regular anti-airs that involve use of normal moves.
Makoto’s st.mp and cr.mp are both insanely good. They have good range, and leave you safe on block, and allow for you to do solid combos. But once you get knocked down, you really don’t have a lot of options available to you. If you block, learn to get into the habit of teching throws while in crouch-block, be sure to time it with your opponent’s attack. If they go for the tick throw, you’ll tech, if they attack, you’ll just block, if they don’t do anything, you’ll do a cr.lk. It’s vulnerable to frame traps, but that should help prevent people from ticking you to death. If you’re eating overheads, you need to learn to block it on reaction. In any case, a good portion of overheads don’t combo into anything, and if they do, then they’re normally fairly slow and easy to block. You’d rather eat an overhead, then get hit by a low attack that leads to a damaging combo.
If you enjoy playing Makoto, then play her, but learn how to play her right. She has an insanely deadly offense, and you can watch a variety of match videos to get an idea on how to set up her damage, and learn how to attack in a safe, but frenetic manner. It’s important to learn how to defend yourself though, because you don’t want to get caught in a situation where you just eat random damage because you never block. She’s a difficult character to use, but fun.
Or you could just play someone fairly solid, like Ryu, and learn how to use pure fundamentals to win. Plus he’s pretty well-balanced, so you shouldn’t have any problems on the offensive/defense side.
oowh… i always though that becus she has no fireballs and slow specials like oroshi she is a defensive character XO… well HELLYEAH! im all about offence :D… i just dont know when to do it lol, i just picked her cus tomboys r cute >,>
altho i realy tried watching some videos i sub’ed to V-ryu channle on YT but i realy… dont quite get it yet… i mean i cant realy DO what hes doing in the training mode… so practising basics till i do ^^ thanks alot for the detailed explenation im one step closer to be a moderate player’s semi challanging apponent xD
Your best bet is to hit up the Makoto forums, as they would be willing to help you out with the specifics for your character. A lot of V.Ryu’s stuff involves doing advanced setups, but stick to the basics for now, and learn to incorporate advanced stuff like hayate cancels and ambiguous Ultra2 crossups later on in your game once you become familiar with the basics.
Actually, most fireball characters are very defensive. They set the pace of the match, throw out fireballs at safe ranges, and react to what you do. Your job, as Makoto, is to find ways around the fireball, so that you can get up close and do major damage. Generally, fireball characters want to keep you out, your job is to get in. That’s a very simplified way of explaining it.