Mask and Claw properties

vega

#1

Can someone link me or just tell me exactly what it takes to make vega lose his claw or mask? (dmg, stun, blocks, etc). I checked the basics thread and didn’t see it listed in the OPs.


#2

Hm that’s is really a good question, and I am ashamed to say: I really do not know!

All I can say is that the mask never comes off of blocked moves, and if I have ~20 percent health left in a round I lost my mask and claw at least once.

I will hit the training room tonight for sure if not somebody beats me to it.


#3

I know Claw comes off at 16 hits or blocks. I don’t know the mask.


#4

So back from the lab. Prof, you are not quite right.

The claw comes off at 501 damage the mask at ** 771** damage. IF you do not block a single move.

As for blocked strikes here it gets a little complicated. It seems a blocked hit is counted as damage internally but with different (though minor) properties. The “block damage” is between 9 for heavy(?) and 10 for light(?) standing moves. So it does take 51 sLP or 56 sHP to take of the claw (and at least 77 blocked hits to take of the mask). I did not test crouching and focus blocks. The damage is cumulated, so if you got hit four times by sHP (480 damage) and block the next three hits (27 - 30 damage?) the claw comes off.

Chip damage either counts as normal damage if it is over 10 damage or as “block damage” if the chip is under 10 damage. I do not think the damage is added together here.

Stun is irrelevant, mask count and claw counter are independent from another and manual removal of either of the items resets the counter of that item.

Take that Bradygames!


Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread
Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread
Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread
#5

Interesting stuff.


#6

Good stuff star, thanks.


#7

Is vega hitbox different without the claw i wonder especially Izuna Drop


#8

Some things that I know: all of Vegas Punch normals are different: sLP/MP/HP crLP/MP/HP jLP/MP/HP in reach and have 10 less damage. Close normals have no different reach (naturally) but also suffer from 10 less damage per hit.

Some things that I am quite sure of: His grab box is not affected by the loss of the claw (ground or air), nor is his throw damage. I guess this is also true for the Izuna/Super grabbox. The Izuna one is small enough already :wink:

What I do not know until somebody finds a way do enable hitboxes in-game: If the claw strike of FBA is affected by the claw loss. There is a different sound effect and the usual 10 points less damage though. But if you have to use the claw strike outside the double hit (which has to be so close that the claw reach doesn’t matter) you have other problems anyway.


#9

Would be nice if any one can record vega hitbox without claw I feel izuna drop hitbox might be bigger without claw, I do know about the damage loss, but the reach feels almost the same still testing.

Focus attack is what kills vega in ssf4 editions or else izuna drop would be godlike.


#10

See that’s the problem, nobody can do that. The only hitbox information we have (aside from the rudimental ones from arcadia magazine scans on eventhubs) come from a leaked video that goes back to the release of super.
Check out Triasnt’s youtube channel, I think he has uploaded all of them. An even there the Scarlett Terror information is missing as well as the proportions of No-Claw moves. There is a prog. for the PC version called ono! edit which allows you to change the proportions of a move (charge time, frame date etc.) but even with this one nobody has figured out how to show the hitboxes ingame.

Aside from that, I disagree with the importance of focus attacks. The are better options for almost every character to counter FBAs than focus. So most of the time you weren’t given the chance to land an Izuna from a raw FBA anyway.


#11

Actually, we can look for that kind of information in the .bac file.

But like you said, its useless.


#12

It seems I am a bit overated here : originally, it was from wwmajin’s channel. :wink:

Focus attack can be troublesome if the focus itself moves the target grab-box away from where the claw does trigger his FBA/Izuna. That is 'cause izuna range is so poor that any offset would turn it into a regular FBA. Meaning absorbed byt the focusing, meaning big punish.

But there are players who do take that in account, and then focusing just turns the opponent into a sitting duck. Characters with anti-airs hitting just above their heads can avoid that much more comfortably. =)


#13

hmm, does anyone know who uploaded those hitbox data videos back in the ssf4 days?


#14

http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/ssf4-hitbox-data/99373/2

This was my source. Long gone now.


#15

yeah, lucky i got them back in the days. but i always wondered how they did it. a capcom employee perhaps?


#16

So I’ve heard. A lot of those seem to have disappeared since super, so it looks like a leak, and it looks like Capcom didn’t appreciate.

The only other exception seem to be Arcadia Magazine’s ones, which are the only ones showing AE stuff and Scarlet terror. =)


#17

From @eternal


#18

Yeah, he dug deeper into that:


#19

You were close though, probably counted wrong on a few things and it screwed up your whole data layout leading to the confusion you had. Biggest oversight was simply the minimum damage values for chip damage also applying to onhit. That is what ultimately confused me the most because I was getting different values that made no sense because of that.

That and miscounting the number of times an attack was blocked lead to your problem with thinking certain normals took more hits than others. Screwed me up too but I retest stuff several times until I get a consistent result.

I’m 100% open to the idea I’m wrong on this but the math seems to be consistently lining up.

… Now if only Cody’s knife had this but with 50 damage instead of 500 >.>


#20

Your theory explains the properties perfect, since it answers all questions regarding the differences from hit and block.

Thanks for testing!