Matchup in AE: Gouken vs Adon

gouken

#1

Henceforth shall go all your questions, answers, and knowledge regarding the Adon matchup in AE!

st.mk is a great poke in this matchup
After a forward throw a dash into dj command dive kick is a safe jump.


Gouken AE Match Ups. MASTER Thread
#2

Reserved for videos
[media=youtube]ubLrzRUgPrM[/media]


#3

Personally, I see this matchup as being 7-3 Adon. All his buttons are better and his armor breaking pressure is spammable. All an Adon needs to do is apply some competent pressure and gouken goes down quick. I would love to see a video of a Gouken beating an Adon that know what he’s doing in the matchup.


#4

Wish granted


#5

I can tell you about this from Adon’s side… From Adon’s perspective, this is one of those matches where you really don’t want to make mistakes, because mistakes get severely punished - the size of damage that Gouken can do after one move is landed usually leads to the matchup turning around.

Note that the video above is Super - in AE, Adon is now slower to stand, but has more tricks with Jaguar Tooth. Also, Adon can juggle with ex Jag Kick - at 2:23, Gamerbee would have been able to follow up the Ex.Jag Kick with a standing f.HK or cl.HK for a further 120 damage.

When I’ve played this match (which I do a lot - my best mate is a Gouken player), I get zoned quite heavily initially, as it’s hard to predict the fireball patterns (don’t throw powered up ones!) - once I’m in, I get to do some good overhead damage due to Gouken’s lack of DP (it’s hard to predict when I’m going to go low, stand with my excellent f.HK, or go overhead with nj.MK, nj.HK or HK.JK, or cross up with j.MK) - if Gouken guesses correctly, or I whiff the spacing on JK, I eat about a billion damage with the palm links, and Gouken gets to reset the distance again too.

As was alluded to above - Adon has focus breaking moves left right and centre - JK, JT, RJ and f.HK all armor break. It’s not worth gambling with that.

Finally - Ultras - Adon U1 gives them the deterrent against fireballs (it’s totally invunerable to them, and can come from almost full screen if the Adon knows what they’re doing), while U2 gives them a close ranged offensive damage boost. My friend usually uses the DP looking ultra (U1?) as it gives him some good combo fodder, and can catch moves on reaction.


#6

Right. Beating Gouken just means not making mistakes that can be punished with an EX palm. If you can do that, you are already halfway to winning.

I have a question for you though since we have you here :clapdos:

Jaguar tooth, is this easily stuffable if you see it coming? With a normal, that is. I looked at the hitboxes on this thing in Super and they were abysmal, worse then a divekick. How do they pan out now? Is a standing jab sufficient? I know the EX one has a much better hitbox I wouldn’t necessarily want to take a chance jabbing…

After you do Jaguar tooth I see you are -2 (HK) and -5 (EX) but for some reason I have trouble punishing or stuffing what comes next. What are your options afterwards and what can stuff it in terms of normals (meaning how fast does a normal have to be to stuff each of your options after).


#7

Well we would not want to give out all of Adon’s secrets…

However what I will say is that there has not been that much changes to Adon in AE. The most major changes affected his wakeup timing and the ex-jaguar tooth which at start up looks like a normal jt (so now you have to guess which strength we used). Centralizing on Gouken, I am not sure if his jab in particular can. I think his jab is different than say all of the other shotos and Oni (you would have to confirm) but if its the same then it can be done timing is just tight i think. You can forget about the ex version unless you want to take damage.

In AE in particular I dont think its 7-3, maybe 6-4 Adon since we will break your parries but if you can keep a cool head like the Gouken in the video and capitalize on errors then you should do fine.


#8

I’m afraid I’m not good enough with frame data to be able to tell you all of this (and tbh, I’m not that great at the game!) - but, I will try and help where I can tho!

Stuffing the dive kicks comes down to position - lets just say you’re at opposite ends of the screen - LK - can’t stuff, but can cause blocks with a fireball. MK - can palm. HK - Jump and kick. EX - Not sure what beats it yet, as the hitbox and speeds are are new for AE - will ask my friend to test it with me, and see if we can come up with some fair options.

As for the first half of your message - yes, I did say that we need to avoid mistakes which on the face of it seem trite, but compare this to the Adon vs Sakura match, where if she hits you, you are only going to take a small amount of damage before a reset occurs, thus meaning mistakes are less costly. At least I tried to contribute!


#9

I’m not being nasty, rather I’m just agreeing with you. I do appreciate when people who don’t play Gouken come to share their viewpoints.


#10

Fair enough :slight_smile: - I just read it wrong - easily done on the net :smiley:


#11

You use crouching LK to avoid some Jaguar Kicks, and sometimes Adon ends behind you.

Crouching MK works to stop Jaguar Kicks more easily than crouching HP.

Standing HP can stop Jaguar Tooth but is very tricky to do.


#12

This. I had that happened to me before but it was against one Gouken and I was a bit mind fucked afterwards. I was supposed to test this gotta go to teh lab now that I have been reminded…


#13

Ya, Tooth i’m not that worried about in matches. I’ve been able to stuff it with both st.hp and st.mp fairly consistently. Just gotta remember to block if i was in the middle of something when he went for it. The frustrating part is the overpowering normals superiority at the edge of footsies and the armor break spam when in close. A couple focus-dash-forwards thru fireballs and adon is right where he wants to be. It’s fairly easy for adon to play the matchup safely. Certainly safe enough to not worry about an ex palm.

As for the Gamerbee/Bullcat video… 1) that Super, not AE. and 2) Bullcat took 2 gambles on naked ultras. the 1 time he was lucky and hit it, he won the round, barely. The second round was the opposite. Bullcat was pushed into an ultra gamble and lost, and lost the round. The third round was so full of missed punishes by Gamerbee that he could have killed bullcat two times over

Not to just be negative, but the gameplan of “hang back and punish mistakes” doesn’t work that well when Adon isn’t really forced to take any chances.


#14

The Adons I’ve played so far just love poking at max range with that high-priority mid-level kick (far enough it only hits once). They might not be good Adons, but I’ve had a field day getting the pattern for it and blowing it up with MP Counter.


#15

I look at this match up a tad bit differently now b/c you can actually do something if you knock him down. His wake up so b.s. before, and removed the threat of him being pressured and thus avoiding a lot of gimmicks, set ups, and baits.

The fact that he has so much spammable shit that either breaks armor or hit’s twice, spells out a bad day for Gouken if you can’t keep him out or stay on the offense. If you find yourself blocking A LOT with Gouken (especially in this match up), then chances are you are going to lose or you’ll barely win. Your tech and reaction game has to be on point for this match up.


#16

Not forced to take chances? We have to run hurdles to get to Gouken in the first place. FB here, FB there, FB in the air… -_- Everytime we move forward we run risk tyvm.


#17

Just Focus dash through fireballs and you’ll get there way faster then trying to jump through the air. don’t dash without focusing first. You can walk forward, hit focus and then just tap forward to get a dash with a built in focus at the start.

This is supposed to be the help Gouken matchup thread =\


#18

The only thing that will help Gouken is flying to japan and giving the capcom dev team a nice hard slap in the face.


#19

No I know that but some of yall a lil bright. FB here, FB here, and BAM palm. Knocked across the screen and gotta play red light, green light.

Oh I want to do this to Capcom so bad for what they did to the twins though quite sure they deserve more for the rest of the cast.


#20

As we all know Adon is madass quick, how about wiffing st.MP now and again when you are zoning to bait him doing some of his Jaguar specials?