Matchup in AE: Gouken vs Balrog

gouken

#1

Gouken vs. Balrog… GO!!!

[media=youtube]y1CN6ZKezhc[/media]


Gouken AE Match Ups. MASTER Thread
#2

Balrog shenanigans to watch out for
dash punch upper has quick recovery on whiff on crouch to do grabs or whatever.
Dash punch to TAP back to another dash punch to catch you pressin buttons.
Balrog has ONE crossup that I know of. Someone fill me in on the details but it has to do with j hk or j hp. Anything else he possibly has are gimmicky headbutt crossups, and that should be no good anymore since AE butthead nerf.

Balrog can pretty much play the best footsies ever. Super long safe sweep, machine gun jabs, st HK will counter hit and stuff like nobody’s business, long reaching st HP. Pretty much the best anti air cr HP in game.

Overview of Rogs normals. Know your opponent.
[media=youtube]XK143qFoqew[/media]

Overview of Rog’s Specials
[media=youtube]LNgnYAEc7xA[/media]

LP dash punch is -3 on block, so tough luck for us, unless the Rog player is so stupid that he ends up point blank after the dash punch, chances are he won’t be in range for throw punish(only block punish option).
Most important part in the Specials vid is the spacing for Rogs punches to be safe. It’s your job to make sure that they aren’t.

Balrog is very solid in all aspects except the mixup. This matchup will be down to who can force the opponent to make the mistake. But Gouken has much less safe options than rog, so your patience must be better.


#3

[LIST=1]
[]Get an Untech Knockdown
[
]Cross him up
[*]He has no overhead so that’s a plus!
[/LIST]


#4

He has that over head rush punch that has armor break and EX, and depending on your reaction and if they’ve conditioned you to block low. He will do that shit > Ultra every time. The only time it’s really a threat is on your wake up, or when he is in that range to space a safe lp rush punch to have the hit frames active before you can stick your jab out. Or if you’ve been focus absorbing rush punches too much.

He doesn’t have a normal overhead, but the fact he can Ultra you for free after landing it more than makes up for it.


#5

Just chunk plasma and keep Rog out. Once Rog gets in he can control Gouken. Gouken has no good reversals. But Gouken can keep Rog out really well. Gouken’s fireballs recover decently, so it’s hard for Rog to punish them too. So abuse the shit out of them.
And crossing Rog up isn’t always reliable. A good player can auto correct HB a cross up if it’s not timed meaty. Rog can also auto correct EX Upper on cross ups.


#6

^ Nah, there are set ups that allow you to cross up anyone with out a 3 frame reversal per safe jump, auto correct or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Gw91WQrVY (Skip to 1:55)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U_wngfvnWo

You can get this off almost anytime you land cr. roundhouse if you jump in right. Many characters are free to cross up, and he’s one of em.

Once you break their moral in their defensive cross up game, they start falling for OS’s and all types of shit. All most can do is just block or face the consequences if they can’t escape your OS options.

The timing is strict, so most won’t bother to learn it and don’t fully grasp the options in the vortex.

Stuff like this is what I mean by Gouken has one of the best cross up oki’s on the game. And the best part is, most characters can’t escape cr. roundhouse os, so you just hit the shit twice and if they block you just sweep out to safety and just start zoning again.

Just saddens me that he can’t link his low move set at all. :frowning:


#7

If you think a Balrog will start a match with a straight dash punch, a LP Palm will stuff it.
(Could work for other varieties too, untested)

One of my worst matchups.

If you anticipate an EX Dash from far away, it can be cr.lk > Ex Tatsu’d on reaction.


#8

I’ve played this match to death with some really good boxer players, like several 60 plus sets. Like was said above, patience and keeping him out are huge in this match. It’s very winnable but you really do have to pick your opening correctly and make sure you maximize that damage when you get one since there won’t be many. Really a pretty even and fun match though. Being very good at crouch teching helps a ton in this match as well if you get cornered since a lot of rogs tend to get jab/throw mixup happy when they get you there.


#9

I’ve seen boxer’s open with TAP, anything to do to punish this? Jumping gets you tagged or they go behind you.

I play this match by trying to lull them into thinking TAP is safe while focusing on getting about half their life down. Once i have them at half, it’s just one TAP througha firebal into my hapily waiting shinsho for one round. The next round i spend EX tatsuing them when they TAP as they now have less then a lifebar to figure out how to get around my fireballs.

If they start jumping a dqsh into cr.HP will antiair them from full screen.

If they ever get in it’s ,y turn to struggle to get them back out. I look for forward throw opportunities so i can safe dive kick and random FAs for a crumple. I’m also busy cr.teching my life away. You def want to know your anti air options here in case he is dumb enough to jump.

He doesn’thave a crossup so there are no wories on that front where you have those repetetive cross up block strings (my bane)


#10

Can someone explain auto correct to me. I’ve done it with EX tatsu, but I’m not sure how exactly.


#11

Finish the movement input /before/ you get crossed up. Then AFTER you get crossed up, press the button. So the special move will goes to the right side automatically. Even though the movement input might be wrong, but because you did it before you get crossed it, it will right itself and still come out.


#12

I figured it might have something to do with delaying the button presses, thanks! Do you find that the window for the movement buffer is tight…like can I do it reeeally early or just do the movement as normal and delay the buttons a few frames?


#13

Try it in training room, but SSF4 AE have a lot of Leeway, you can delay it by way more then a couple of frame, I think it is up to 15 frames. I’m not entirely sure the exact number, but it feel very long


#14

i know you can do it as soon as they cross your 12 o’clock and its easily safejumped and yes it seem hella long. i wish on the auto-correct side it was quicker to catch them giefs and blankas


#15

Ultra 1 is still the best Ultra for this matchup imo. You can ex palm no fadc into full shin sho pretty easily. You can also punish TAP with it, which you can’t do with Denjin.

Use EX tatsu for OS.

Use st.hp, st.lp, and ex tatsu to punish any TAP through fireballs. Haven’t tried it but you may be able to cr.hp xx ex palm punish as well.

He has no two hit AA so you can flip parry when he has Ultra and he is getting itchy to headbutt U1 you.


#16

I agree 100% with the above


#17

As a balrog player, flip parry is probably the hardest thing to deal with. Palm his ass when he trys to get around fireballs. Do whatever goken’s juggle air to air is when rogs jump in from footsie-range. Go nuts with the frame traps when you have ultra, as most rogs will be mashing cr. tech to stop the backthrow.


#18

If you are willing to take a chance, try just using st.lp. You can chain them and it takes 6 frames for him (Gouken) to recover when he lands. I am not sure if dive kick will beat your standing lps though. Nothing “obvious” will beat his parry though. Headbutt will be punished, standing strong or cr.hp will get punished, and jump back will get punished as well.

The only other thing to try is an armor break that hits right in front of you.


#19

Cr.lp>ex go hado is a great up close bait and punish for rigs ex rush punch. The second fb hits just before his punch does


#20

why use ex instead of normal? Will both hits score?

Can you also land cr. roundhouse or combo into anything else after this?

I normally jab 2 times to hit him out of it or lp > lp palm.

He can headbutt through the string though. :frowning: