Matchup in AE: Gouken vs. C.Viper

gouken

#1

She likes her toys!


Gouken AE Match Ups. MASTER Thread
#2

Air parry risks armor break.

She can be safe jumped.

She usually follows her ground palm with a low normal. Try lp kongo here.

Neutral jump hp and dj.mp can shut her jump ins down if you predict correctly.

Her jump in can hit you on one side and then cancel into a cross up flame kick. Beware. Kongo or EX tatsu the first attack.

On her wake up, she still has that invincible ex ground punch or that flying ex kick roll thing. Bait with a cr.lk and punish with sweep to reset the wake up.

A lot of them, if they whiff a flame kick, like to go for the grab.

Stay a moving target so she cannot lock on you with her ground punch.

If she does ground punch when you do hado, in my experience this usually results in a trade and I think it’s close in damage but IIRC you have more life. Use sparingly.

She is more susceptible to flip sweep since she is looking to do her ground punch cancel business. Do not flip sweep on her wake up unless you really think you will surprise her.


#3

She can only cancel her a2a to flame kick on her super jumps.
Most vipers have no patience. Stay far, dont fall for seismos and shell be itching to jump in on you all day. Meet and beat her in a2a.
Focus is pretty much useless.
Easy to safejump both the ex seismo and uppercuts. Most vipers don’t use ex flamekick for wakeup but it happens.
cr lk can make most of her options whiff on wakeup


#4

EX palm or palm goes through ground punch…


#5

viper destroys me but i think this is incorrect.
focus is very good against flame kicks and it encourages her to use ground thunderknuckles to get in.
that gives you an opportunity to nj.hp a thunderknuckle for a max punish.
if you focus a lot from range, you can stop focusing once you are in thunderknuckle range and fish for neutral jumps.
also, wakeup focus + dash gets you out of a lot of her air mixups.
against viper i think focus is dangerous but important.


#6

Me vs Viper:
[media=youtube]0yN41prIZjM[/media][media=youtube]NoplvJLEmns[/media]


#7

^Not too shabby. I played a scary as hell Viper last night that knows the Gouken match up really well. His rush is sick and he would rarely drop any combo. Even just trying to block was a chore and I would get stunned within the first ten seconds. I think I won about 5 or 6 out of 30ish, it was rough. When viper knows all the stuff listed above and has godlike execution to go with it, it almost seems like you have to dish damage little by little with lights chained or get a lucky opening for a palm combo. This guy was rarely leaving a gap. There was a couple times where you jumped in that vid where the same situation got me double tk’d for stun or ended up in ultra from some crazy shit. This is easily my hardest match up, I don’t see how it isn’t one of his worst. Maybe this guy in particular knows the mu really well and all my options since he has played a few different goukens often.

He was also going for and landing max damage and stun at every opportunity. I only saw him drop one FFF combo and he knew how to bait kongo like crazy. Anyone know what to do against that kind of shit?


#8

There are certain things one should not do in this match up and that’s empty jumps right above viper and repetitively use the same normal in this case sweep with out a good strategy. What worked for Takin Flight may not work for the rest of us especially against a pro viper. Ok from my experience Viper rules the ground when she has EX BAR and in this match up it is best to stay some what airborne against Viper using a spaced Demon flip with an option select in mind (via DF sweep Grab or parry etc.) to go forward, back jump then neutral jump mixing it up to bait her seismo, HP thunder knuckle or random jumping. I stick with Mp & Hp fire ball in the midst of all my jumping so when she does EX seismo and catches you she will jump right into a fireball. I EX or RH Demon flip dive kick for a combo or DF Grab also. If she gets the jump in on you dont be so eager to react and be patient and block since she could stop her momentum with a flame kick and snuff you. LK goes under her flame kick keep that in mind if you want to evade her also dont be so eager to grab or even parry because a pro will expose these things. Vipers wake up game is challenging for Gouken if the opponent knows what to expect. i have found a timed demon flip cross up to be good against her. also on her wake up try dashing in with standing jab to smack her out a ground flame kick standing jab then block low or standing jab low parry or grab figure out your opponents weak spots before trying this. a timed neutral jump combo or cross up combo if she wakes up with EX seismo helps but remember she can cancel seismo with a thunder knuckle so beware. One more thing when you are stuck in the corner learn how to block viper up and down and remember a timed lk will be good to evade a timed flame kick


#9

I appreciate the tips but I was already doing all that or taking those things into consideration and still get blown up. I guess that’s why this is a 6-4 or 7-3 match, 3 or 4 is about how many I win out of 10. Besides him just being flat out good, he has played me a ton so he should know what to expect. On the same token so should I, it’s just Viper has a lot more to watch out for on her shit. Double kongo on burn kick x up has helped a little though since he will sometimes do a late jumping lk right on top of my head cancelled into x up burn kick. He is also really good at the ex seismo feint to open you up or keep you crouch blocking only to poke you with an overhead and go for another seismo. Bastard lol, and god forbid he baits you into jumping because of it. Even if you do tech the throw guessing with an mp palm has been the safest thing I’ve been able to do so far. If it hits I get a little mixup room, blocked at that distance and we’re usually back to neutral. I’ll get some vid of this up when he comes back thursday so we can actually get analysis from you guys. I know I’m missing a hole in his gameplan somewhere and maybe one of you can spot it.


#10

Viper vs Gouken in my opinion is 5.5 - 4.5. Pretty even.

Perhaps Viper is a top tier, but the usually weak tool High Kongo is actually really good against Viper. Throw it out and be risky with it is probably necessary against Viper, the point is to make her fear trying to cross you up. With the right amount of Kongo, Gouken is probably the only character in the entire game that is immune to her cross up pressure. Our reversal doesn’t care which side she hit, long as she hit.

The EX one will make her scare to even empty jump and c.lk you. Cause depends on most of the timing it will still Parry her. She will then focus her game play around throwing. That is when Viper is forced out of her comfort zone. For a high executable and spacing based character, forcing her out of her comfort zone will hurt her more then it would hurt most other characters.

TL: DR; perhaps Gouken have crappy tool, but he have just the right tool to deal with Viper’s most power weapon.


#11

I find using parry is still difficult, because she doesn’t hit you when you’d expect her to , her burning kick jolts her back up and takes a short time to come out.

So you’ll have to later parry to catch that.

However i don’t get much practice against vipers so it would probably come with practice.
As do all things.


#12

If they j. lk into burn kick x up right on top of your head you get hit out of ex kongo if they know what they’re doing. Double kongo is the only way I’ve gotten it to work once he figured out how to do it properly


#13

It depends. Sometime you have to takes risk. Don’t do everything the same. As in, don’t be predictable. Throw some focus, natural jump, or simply backdash in the mix. or even EX tatsu. If you see them looking like they are canceling over the top of your head, you can use c.lk to duck under the burn kick then throw them to catch them off guard. You can even options select with c.lk x 2 where the second one are option select with lp.palm.


#14

He isn’t really mashing it out though, When I cr lk after the jump attack he won’t burn kick, just land and seismo me again lol. If I kongo he goes for bk. Dude very rarely falls for cross ups, when he does is usually the times I win.


#15

Thought about something last night but can’t try it since I don’t own the game and only play with other people these days. Can you low kongo a point blank ex seismo? Her only armor break is tk right? This is something I haven’t tried that would at least back him the fuck off for a min and score some good damage. It’d also make him weary of doing it and open up the throw game a little more or make him feint it and go for tk or something else I could probably block or counter easily. I’ve started to find a little sucess with making him play footsies (when he has no meter) since far st hp smacks that bitch in the mouth pretty good.


#16

Ex seismo does not break armor unless it is reversal, so if he is doing it on block stun recovery or wake up, it will beat kongo.


#17

usually not reversal


#18

I’m struggling against high end Vipers.

I can’t parry because of her Thunder Knuckle, the Burning kick is quite difficult to parry.
A Fireball usually gets me a Ground Pounded (Then she escapes my fireball with a Highjump cancel.)
Demon Flipping gets a HP Thunder Knuckle.

Palm is unsafe so it’s not advised, unless you think she’ll do a Ground Pound.
She’s hard to grab due to grab invincibility Ground Pound and counting as airborne in Burning kick.

Any advice here Old Buddy Old Pal’s?


#19

Vipers have about a millions way to get around fireball but unfortunately we have no choice, we have to throw fireball. Learn the spacing between her HP ground pound and MP ground proud, stands between it when she have no EX bar and throw fireball.

I think that will help a little on opening her up.


#20

fake mp to bait her to jump. then use J. mp os to tatsu, it is a good tool vs. Viper. Especially if you have a good read on her jump.

Focus and Palm can allow you to glide through SIZE MO and we are getting super lp palm back so we can be safe if she wants to cancel when we are in range.

Neutral Jump forward Stun Gun. And punish accordingly.

Her wake up is garbage, just like Gouken’s, get a knock down and go get the win by keeping her there.