Matchup in AE: Gouken vs Dan

gouken

#1

Gouken vs. Dan. Proves who’s not the worst! GO!


Gouken AE Match Ups. MASTER Thread
#2

cr.lk or cr.rh to duck the tatsu loop, if your using cr.lk he will fly over the crouching Gouken, when he lands stay crouched and just sweep him, then cross setups all day!

if your using cr.rh , throw one he’ll fly overhead then just as he lands your second sweep will be timed perfectly he will hit the pavement…

use either to escape unscathed with ample time to punish him as he lands.


#3

Short Tatsu and EX Tatsu, although risky moves that can’t really be used as a reactionary tactics here, will also break the Dan air kick loop.


#4

Here’s me playing a Dan and getting molested first round.It seems to me that without meter it’s very tough to escape tatsu loop. You can c.LK but you have to pretty much GUESS when he is gonna tatsu (from my understanding). The first round, I’m trying different normals to see if I can beat his tatsu with anything. Nothing so far. I don’t do any high kongo because he can do his tatsu in the air and armor break it. I probably should have done a few I guess. I missed a few things in this game but what I really wanted to discuss was a viable option to break free of his tatsu/shoryu/throw shenanigans.

[media=youtube]kBUQreGcHU4[/media]
This Dan player should have won if he didn’t fuck up that focus attack near the end. I got lucky. I know two Dan players actually that beat me constantly : Flaminghotstuff and UmeKoryu (I think). Not enough people play Dan so I don’t know much about this match-up and what exactly to do in it.

Also I did ex tatsu on his wakeup & FADCed when he blocked. I know it wouldve beaten his ex kicks if he had done that on his wakeup but would it have beaten his ex shoryu? I’m pretty sure that would’ve beaten his ultra as well.


#5

I’m down for some Dan on Gouken training sessions if anyone feels they need help with the match up… anyone … hello?


#6

guessing = good reads as you get more experience in this matchup. sweep and cr.lk slip right under it with proper recovery you will punish him accordingly as time goes on.

The way I train for my weak matchups is to praise the opponent after the fight also tell them you need to improve your knowledge on your dan matchup in this case and most of the time they will oblige…

For dan and several others what i do when im trying to figure opp out is to :
At the start of the fight: bdash 1 time lp hado , bdash twice right after then mp hado then throw a lpalm. At least try it a few times I know it seems arbitrary. Youre basically retreating while trying to funnel his path towards you and lpalm at the end is to put up a wall if he does take the bait and chases you as most Dan’s cannot resist trying to initiate the tatsu loop pressure ASAP.

I use things like this to create gambits to gauge my opponents reactions while moving the engagement area back away from him. NJ.hp is your friend when Dan gets close enough that you start to worry , and when hes about 2/3 screen away from you expect the jump>air tatsu and be ready to mp hado. Try to keep an eye open for the fast crouch Dans do prior to tatsu as a result of the input commands similar to pad goukens on hado you can usually see them duck before fb’s and or U1.

As for the loop>backdash , jab is your best friend when your anticipating him to run away (Thanks to IAM for that one!!!), use sparingly as jab loses to tatsu obviously.

Dont forget to stuff that srk on wakeup too!!!


#7

I’m down. Are you on PC?

I tried sweet talking one of the dans and he just said its 6-4 in Dan’s favor so I shouldn’t really expect to win. Haha he didn’t play with me after that. I’ll keep that trick in mind. So basically you have to either DUCK the tatsu with c.LK or c.HK or block it be 50/50ed? You can’t do anything about it on reaction unless you have ex tatsu? We don’t have any normal that will beat that thing? I ask because it seems similar to chicken wing from fei to me (only 1st hit breaks armor there) and c.HP stuffs chicken wing at the right spacing.


#8

cr.hp also ducks EX chicken wing believe it or not when done at nearly the same time—

Try training mode and set Gouken to 5x all normals crouching and non , then get dan and go crazy with his tatsus and see if you find something that works. In my fights I usually cr.lk or sweep then throw or ex palm immediately after ducking it, I believe even lp kongo can duck it , cr mk may trade when timed correctly tatsu’s can beat it but you have to be willing to go for it on reaction , usually they work better if he does lk tatsu and ur in the corner.


#9

far st hp beats his tatsu, IIRC but of course not applicable during the loop


#10

Big thing to keep in mind is that air Dankicks can be focused. If Dan likes air tatsuing over your fireballs, thinking he’s safe, break out the Kongo and let him fly to full screen.

One pattern Dan players love is FK Tatsu, expecting you to block, then Koryu or throw afterward (higher probability of Koryu with FADC as backup). Best bet is to Kongo and let him autopilot. If you’re thrown, you’re thrown, and he’ll likely try again, this time trying to beat a tech attempt with Koryu. The best result, of course, is him blowing the meter canceling his DP only to lose that, some of his heath, and his positioning all at once. Dan isn’t as meter-reliant as other characters, but the less he has available to him, the better.


#11

A good Dan will throw in MK.Dankus hoping you’ll sit there expecting the third hit. It is a (pretty much) free throw.


#12

I didn’t know this. Thanks. I thought it was armor breaking just like his ground Dan kicks.


#13

Any problems I have with Dan revolve around his Dan kicks.

Mk and HK dan kick is -2 on block. That means if he is in throw range cl.st.mk will stuff everything he does except for uppercut.

lk dan kick is 0 on block but c.lp is 4 frame start up, c.mp is 5 frame start up, and c.mk is 7 frame start up. Figure out his pattern for keeping that loop going and beat it with a normal or backdash. All regular dan kicks have 17 frame start up.

EX dan kick is 8 frame start up so can punish a backdash but is -3 on block so cl.st.mk can punish it.

I don’t know why I’ve never bothered to look at this information before.


#14

50/50 hell…Just gotta keep him off your grill like most rush down chars I guess.


#15

It’s not 50/50 though, well, I guess it is, but I’m willing to take that risk. I always tech and then he is still in my face if he tried to throw, I just felt like your only options were late tech or block.

Knowing this, I can just throw out cl.st.mk after a blocked HK or mk dan kicks and if he tries to throw or do a normal he is the fuck out of my face for 120 damage. If he is crazy enough to do srks, once, twice… sooner or later I am going to block one and punish him for 450 damage.

My whole problem is that I thought he was even on block or something and that if I tried a normal I would get thrown. Since I thought that, I didn’t have many options other then to late tech and then try to take advantage of that neutral state after a tech.


#16

Both lk danku and EX danku can hit meaty at specific ranges making them safer/better. Dan’s cl.mp has ridiculous blockstun (more than Fei’s) so cl.mp xx lk danku is basically impossible to hit out of with a normal, you might be able to duck with cr.lk.

If you crouch the lk danku hits meaty, making it plus. So stand block if you’re going to block. Crouching so you get a window to EX tatsu or ultra works.

If Dan does cr.lk xx lk danku you can hit him out in between the hits but you can’t hit him out of his cr.lk following any lk danku.

On wakeup the lk danku usually will make EX tatsu/ultra whiff and hits meaty. So you are forced to block the followup unless you reversal Kongo, but he can get a free cr.lk as a blockstring anyway.