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Against the lariat, the arm swinging part can be kongo’d either high or mid. However, the first hit of it, which can hit us crouching is a little more finicky. I was able to mid and high kongo the Punch lariat’s first hit, but the Kick lariat’s first hit seems to required a mid kongo. So, ya, mid-kongo the lariat if you plan on kongo.
Neutral Jump FP is his worst enemy.
Can an a Dive kick beat his Lariat or a Demon Flip -> Dive Kick as soon as he wakesup?
How so? My only real struggle in this matchup is when I get knocked down (obviously). The problem is, unless he takes a huge chance, I can’t see a way out. If he does nothing and I neutral jump I feel like I don’t have anything that can stop him from lariating me on my way back down. nj.hp will trade but I’m back on the ground and he is standing over me.
A command dive kick might be able to but my flip dive kicks always trade (when he is already standing).
On his wake up,takinflight posted a tip in the older thread about being able to throw or dive kick him on wake up. Just remember that when he has EX he can EX SPD you if you dive kick too deep.
Aim it to hit him in the head to stuff lariat. I only do this when I have EX though, b/c most Zangiefs want to punish you b/c you hit them high, but if you EX Flip as soon as you hit the ground, grab, lariat, all gives up a punish opportunity b/c they whill whiff during the first 25 frames of the EX Flip.
You can apply this to any character.
Im pretty sure Iam posted this somewhere else already but, Zangief’s lariat is 3 fr startup and invincibility for a good time. However, he still has throw vulnerable boxes on his center mass throughout. Setups should be available for df throw on Giefs wakeup and if you feel like stylin on a gief you can df throw him on some shenanigans.
I need to see this df throw beating lariat in action. I imagine the spacing is pretty tight.
Watch for giefs doing cr. mk. Kongo it or jump away. They love to spd you if you block it.
I’ve been somewhat successful throwing giefs out of green hands after hit or block.
I like to neutral jump at the beginning of a match because if they do green hands its a free way to start with a life lead. There isn’t anything he can do to you if you do this. I generally play the whole matchup this way and it’s worked out well. Stay outside his lariat range, tease out some green hands and punish, fb to df sweep…it’s usually pretty boring. If the player is excellent with gief I haven’t a chance though.
i played this gief in endless battle and he striaght bodied me on wake up he knew what i was doing everythime WTF?? i tryd to bait green hand for a nice netural combos denied most of the time ill say i wasnt using that much plasma this might have been the problem any help?
It’s hard to say really if he guesses right.
You a few options on wake-up:
EX DF (Leaves you next to him on the other side, vulnerable to lariet, could dive kick his face?)
Block (Dangerous due to command grabs.)
Jump(Dangerous due to lariets, other attacks, escapes grabs and garuntees full combo, could Tatsu away if he didn’t grab)
Parry(Loses to Command grabs, 1/3 chance to hit.)
Personally, I find most Giefs tend to jump over you with a body press, a parry will sort that out.
Hado’s are definetly the staple of a Gouken vs Zangief fight.
Throw them out, vary the charge time if he lariets through them, stay out of EX green hand range, if he lariets often throw one out and DF sweep him.
A game can end if he knocks you down once. But i’m sure you know that!
I’m afraid thats it from me, i probably havent told you much you don’t know already.
I like to throw out a fj.HP > cr.HP > lp.Hado a few times to check he’s paying attention.
I’d like to say i believe a DF dive kick can stuff a lariet if it hits his tiny melon head. Although from that height it’s probably not a combo’able one.
And if you get a knockdown, i like to DF to the opposite side if i’ll get more corner distance.
Against Gief, you need to establish that you are NOT afraid to dash in and throw him when he gets close. Dashing in and throwing him keeps him pushing buttons.
Once you have him pushing buttons you can play the fireball/footsies game. st.mk has great range against him, use st.mp and c.lk as well.
If you get cornered or get close to being cornered, jump at him and EX tatsu at your apex, almost all giefs will hit lariat giving you a free escape.
Play with the volume up, when you get him across the screen MP palm will punish kick lariat, demon flip sweep punishes punch lariat.
Everything else is staying on your feet and playing the red light/green light game (fireball vs green hand guessing game).
Also, if you get a hard knock down on him take a step back and neutral jump, neutral jump HP will stuff his wake up lariat for free and give you a combo.
I have had near to zero success with df kick against gief. At best, it trades for me but some have said they are able to use the grab effectively. I think you try to grab his hand during lariat. Can this be confirmed by anyone?
Also, a nice tool to never forget is jump in air tatsu. If he is lariat happy, this owns him. Tatsu in general owns gief.
Throw from full screen no, throw on his wake up, yes.
Don’t do those dangerous palm and dive kick thing to punish Lariat. Sometime it trade even if you got the right one. Just dash forward and c.hp. Low damage but no risk at all. his hurt box is actually quite a bit out and you will pretty much never get hit.
Otherwise, just lame it out. Don’t get yourself cornered, if you do, use EX air Tatsu to get out. He will try intercepts it, but you can just neutral jump and do nothing to bait his neutral jump head-butt. Neutral jump FP usually doesn’t trade Lariat if you press it at the right time and don’t do it too close. He might try standing RH you but it is usually too slow to react to that.
all of the advice listed advice and also he hates mp fbs smacking his face
Similar to safe jumps but delayed…like right after a sweep?
At full screen you can dash all you want but you aren’t hitting him with cr.hp
By the time you audibly confirm and recognize which one he is doing what I said will work.
@ climaxter: Same way you would throw anyone on their wake up.
so much easier than it was in vanilla!
holy crap, this fight was impossible when you couldn’t sweep lariat and ex glove was a knockdown.
poke at him with s.mk, it’s freaking awesome vs. gief.
also, if he is using the long lariat against your fireballs across screen, you can use hk.df slide to score damage.
you win this fight with fireballs and lose by getting put in the corner.
when you are getting close to the corner, look for ways to get out instead of damage.
gief is one of those cool fights where you can poke with (c.lk xx hk.tatsu xx fadc) and hit confirm ultra.
if gouken could use that against everyone, he would be a lot better.