Meaty Hooligan

cammy

#1

I’m not entirely sure what to call it, but it’s basically when your opponent is getting up from the ground and is forced to eat a Hooligan to the face unless they reversal off the floor.

I think the two most common setups are:

  • CS immediately into HP Hooligan, if the opponent techs after being hit by CS, they will be thrown by Hooligan
  • Forward throw immediately followed by MP Hooligan, opponent cannot duck in time to jab/crouch away from being thrown by Hooligan

In order to counter people that get wise and begin to reversal DP (since it’s pretty easy to see a flying ball of Cammy coming towards you and begin mashing), I’ve started to use weaker versions of Hooligan to make their DP whiff and let me grab them out of the air. For example:

Normally, after a forward throw, you would go for a MP Hooligan.
Once they catch on and try to DP, you can take a small step back and LP Hooligan, barely making the DP miss and you can grab them while they’re still in the air. It’s worked for me, but DP range tends to vary character to character, so I dunno.

I’ve also begun to get the timing down for any knockdown, but I have a few questions regarding Hooligan setups like these:

  1. How often do you guys use it? I know it’s fairly common knowledge, but I rarely see it used in videos. I tend to use the setups quite often (trying not to become predictable, of course), but maybe it’s just better to try for some other tricky set up?

  2. Do you think it’s practical to try to get meaty Hooligans down? I’ve definitely stuffed a few reversal DPs from shotos and Sagat with a Hooligan setup, but it was never on purpose.

  3. Is anyone knowledgeable on what characters have bad reversals that these would be more useful against? I know Abel is pretty screwed when it comes to these setups, Chun Li can’t do much unless she has EX bars, and I’m not sure Elf can do anything to stop the hooligan from landing either. Any others?


#2

I’ve never tried/seen this setup before but then again i’m new to SF4, doesn’t every character have a reversal for this? I mean even if you don’t have a DP most characters have something they can use whether it be an ex or just a regular move that beats this (aka ex headbutt, ex flip kick, ex sbk, lp torpedo just to name a few, not to mention ultras)? Also let’s say you use this in a situation where the opponent can’t reversal counter it (either no move or no ex or ultra won’t hit air) what if they just don’t tech get up? Doesn’t this leave you in a bad position?

As for using this to bait out dps, i think that’s a better idea! However it would be such a waste to throw them out of the dp! Just let their dp miss you and feel free to bust out the combo of your choice when they land!!

EDIT: I don’t have a reliable person (someone who can dp and hooligan consistently enough) to test this out, but can you not just backdash or jump back?


#3

I made a thread about this before. Generally the board doesnt seem to like this approach but it’s done wonders for my game. The trick is not to meaty hooligan all the time of course. It’s just a matter of conditioning your opponent and meaty hooligans are a WONDERFUL tactic for that. May I also add to your options: walk up close, FADC(b) into HP hooligan. You’ll any kind of fireball of horizontal attack but it will often time catch turtlers who think they’re in the clear.

Grappling Cammy (the style I play) has yet to be tapped properly. Meaty hooligan is vital in this strategy. Keep at it and let’s exchange strats.

Oh also: Chun-Li with no metter equals Meaty hooligan HEAVEN. Abuse her with this tactic until she gains a bar of meter at which point make her think you’ll do something meaty on wakeup to make her use her EX SBK. Then rinse and repeat.


#4

I’ve honestly never done it before. Haha, I know I can do it, but I don’t. I’m too afraid of the Dragon Punch. I tried one CSpike FADCB Hp Hooligan, and It was weird. Worked though. I’ll give this a try next time I play SF4


#5

I think its a decent strategy to use providing your opponent doesn’t have ultra, while I’ve been dragon punched out of it a lot I’ve also caught my fair share of shotos with this set up. Generally I won’t use it more than once a match but its a nice set-up to try out near the start of a match. I have a friend who plays Ryu who knows to dragon punch me out of it but still gets caught now and then, I think I even grabbed him out of the first couple of frames of his shoryuken the other day too.


#6

can’t you take out cammy off her hooligan ball by cr. light jabs from distance and cr. lp or block from regular hooligan? i’ve seen chun lis take their distance and bait out an ex hooligan and just wiff it with cr. lp…


#7

I use this a lot
Used against Daigo and it worked for the first few times lol


#8

if you do this setup correctly you can’t throw out a c lp let alone even crouch at all, that’s why this works… the only problem is that if your opponent DOESN’T do a quick stand up you’re pretty much f’d


#9

I actually use this myself and have added it to the wake up game. Love making them guess what I am gonna do when I get a knock down. Sometimes I throw, sometimes I cannon spike, sometimes a lk sa, and sometimes a mp hooligan to catch em getting up.


#10

Yeah, I definitely use the setup way more than I probably should, but I’ve found that as long as I’m careful with it, it helps a lot more than it helps.

Just don’t use it when the other guy has ultra filled up because then you’re in for a world of hurt.

As far as every character being able to get out of it goes, I really think Abel (and maybe Sakura, since her DP starts with a dash) is screwed period and some characters need EX (Chun Li and Rose) so you can abuse the setup to high hell if they’re out of meter.

Well, the forward throw setup means they always slowly get up, so the only thing you have to worry about is a reversal, but all you need to do to counter that is throw a light hooligan or avoid the situation altogether by doing what you normally do after a knockdown. For relying on the CS tech, if they don’t tech, I think you’re pretty safe since the slide finishes before they’re all the way up (IIRC). And no, you can’t back dash or jump back for the same reason you can’t crouch and jab in time; you’re still in the “getting up” animation.

Are there any other characters that don’t have a reliable reversal attack? I’ve noticed Bison and Dhalsim tend to just teleport away once they figure out what’s going on, but that just means you have to anticipate the teleport and let the Hooligan slide follow through, since they can’t really punish you. And it seems like Balrog’s HP and MP Headbutts strike at such an angle that Cammy’s already way past his hitbox, meaning she just flies over him; not sure about LP headbutt.


#11

I think it works pretty well against Gouken (without Ultra) as well.


#12

Abel can grab you out of the air if you meaty hooligan (I forget the name of his move). I think a lot of characters don’t do it because they’re not used to having to punish what is essentially a neutral jump in. But if an abel knows what you’re doing, you can get punished on repeated hooligans.

But a lot don’t, so abuse it! I would add that Dhalsim, Fuerte, and Vega all have lousy or underused wakeup options that result in easy meaty hooligans.


#13

Hooligan was my main offensive weapon, now it seems everyone knows how to counter it…

Vs DP characters = wake up DP
vs Non-DP chars = quick back dash from wake up / no quick stand…

Cammy is a gimmick based character… Once they know your gimmick, it’s an uphill struggle.

One trick still gets many people is after you’ve pressure them for a while, let them stand up and walk backwards, the instant you see them walking backwards, throw out a HP hooligan, its 95% grab, this only works immediately after you intentionally let them go after big pressure.

This will not work if they just walk backwards not as an escape from pressure.


#14

haha that tactic worked against me 100% of the time last time we sparred >_<;;


#15

Can they really back dash in time after waking up to avoid the Hooligan?

Fthrow -> mp hooligan seems to allow only for reversal DP or ultra, and sometimes it even stuffs DPs. I wouldn’t think there would be enough time to move back.


#16

Yes… maybe not on-line if there are lag, but for sure in off-line… Everyone I played against in Evo did this against my Cammy…


#17

Okay did some testing on this today …

If the opponent doesn’t quick stand after the CS most characters have a mix up they can do on Cammy… especially anyone with a command grab! I was playing a friend of mine who uses Zangief and he pretty much destroyed this tactic by not quick standing, then either SPD (if it whiffs due to jump he went right into green hand) or lariat (beats jump back).

When they don’t quick stand the hooligan whiffs and puts you both right next to each other and while it doesn’t seem that Cammy is at a disadvantage, it does negate the advantage you had initially with your knockdown. For example if you whiff the hooligan you don’t have time for an instant dive kick as your opponent can just backdash/jump/dp/ultra/etc on reaction whereas if you just walked up and instant dive kick’d they would have to guess!

I conclude that while this tactic is a good tool in Cammy’s arsenal, it cannot be abused!


#18

I just had a thought: if people can backdash away from an MP hooligan in time, would an HP hooligan catch them during their backdash?


#19

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DjB13 has a video of the Fierce -> Spike -> FADC -> Spike -> Hooligan in one of his tutorial videos somewhere =\

It’s pretty much the same principle. What you grab is the standing frames before the crouching animation starts to happen, or if you watch in the youtube video you can see it grabs the starting animations of the crouch. This is because in SF4 if you crouch, you start off standing -_-; Thus allows Cammy to grab. I’ve been really lazy as of yet and have not followed through with my promise to find out who this works on and on who this doesn’t, but for sure it can get DP’d out of.


#20

I did some testing and Hooligan does seem to grab characters even if they manage to backdash. There was a thread somewhere that analyzed backdashes and for most characters, you’re technically airborne during the animation. I think the only option people have is to reversal DP, ultra, or teleport away, granted you don’t screw up the timing.