Meaty & Reversal... I don't get it


#1

Hi there!

Can somebody can explain me the right timing for Meaty & Reversal Moves?

While I understand the concept behind those, I can’t really do neither.

Thanks for your time!


#2

Mmm, both things depends on the time of your execution and the frames of the move. Usually you can figure most of the moves practicing. But if someone can help you with the framedata it will be a lot more useful.


#3

Since the startup-times (non-hitting frames) for moves are different, so will be the timing for the meaty attacks. You want to hit your opponent at least the first frame he is able to move again, so he has to either block or reversal. That means for meaty attacks you have a way more wider input window than for the reversals.

For Dic’s cr.MK you have [5,8,5], which means 5 startup frames of startup, 8 hit frames and 5 recovery frames. See more @ NKI’s translated frame data.

For the reversal:

  • Not each move can be used as a reversal. (In case you did not know already…)
  • Try piano the reversal input. Helps a lot.

#4

I never really understood frames, even with NKI’s translated frame data. I am not even sure what a frame really is.


#5

A frame is the shortest unit of time that the game recognizes - the amount of time that 1 single frame of animation is displayed on screen. Most fighters run at 60fps, so it’s 1/60th of a second.


#6

You imply that 1 “game frame” = one frame of animation, which I do not believe is correct. I believe there are less frames of animation per second than “units” of game time.

I’m happy to be corrected though, as this is from memory.


#7

meaty attack: as the opponent is waking up, use an attack that will have its hitting animation overlap the opponents sprite. if he unsuccessfully tries to reversal, tech throw, or decides not block (or not block low for low meaty attacks?like ryu low forward), he gets hit. a good way to force your opponent to block on wake up because he’s usually at a disadvantage if he tries to challenge the meaty, esp. if he has low life. mistimed meaty attacks can be punished


#8

I believe meaties beating many reversal moves are 3s stuff. In ST, if you input an invincible reversal move, a no startup (e.g. Blanka’s balls) reversal move, a reversal throw or a command throw reversal move, you either win or trade. Or both whiff, in some rare setups.


#9

Don’t really know why you think I’m citing 3s, but I forgot a key word in my op, edited.

Reversal throws lose to meaties as long as you are out of their throw range when attempting to meaty.


#10

i confirm this.


#11

Because in that game they can beat throws, SRKs and a bunch of stuff. Which is something I do not really like, as I do not like jab SRK getting stuff by whacky shit in A3. Just my opinion. I ain’t a 3S hater, after all.

Anyway, your post does make a lot more sense right now.


#12

Zerodot is talking about frames as units of time. You’re talking about animation.

If you have a punch with for example 3 sprites/drawings, the character starting the punch, stretching his arm completely, and retracting the punch. And all of that lasts 25/60th second, you don’t say the move has 3 frames of animation. You say it has 25.

Those 25 frames are then divided into startup (where it doesn’t hit yet), the hitting frames, and the recovery (where it doesn’t hit anymore but still has to return back to neutral).

If you want to do a meaty, you need to time it so the actual hitting frames of your move coincide with the opponent finishing his rising animation.


#13

You’re right, and I agree. It sounded like zerodot was conflating game frames with frames of animation when he said “A frame is the … amount of time that 1 single frame of animation is displayed on screen”. So I was just trying to clarify and avoid confusion, but you did a better job of explaining it than I did! :angel:


#14

actually there’s a large number of meaties that beat common reversals.

most meaty crossup attacks will beat uppercut/upkick type moves, either because of the way the hitboxes coincide, or because the uppercut will come out the wrong direction. gief’s splash and blanka’s j.lk both come to mind

and then there’s the safe jump, which is a special kind of meaty and beats everything but ken’s fierce DP.


#15

You can’t safejump Blanka either, but I’m sure you know that. Also, I don’t think you can safejump Akuma, for what it’s worth.


#16

Yeah, I tried jumping in on nohoho’s Blanka at the weekend… not a good idea :slight_smile: