Meaty s.mk: safe?

ken

#1

One of the things I like doing with ken is a meaty s.mk followed by jab shoryu, since just LOOKS SO DAMN UNSAFE. But is it really?

Or is it one of those “well, they’d have to do a shoryuken 'cause nothing else is fast enough” type moves?


#2

mk is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to slow(i think)
although sometimes i hesitate and i have to do a shoryu since 'nothing else is fast enough’
i mainly do UOH


#3

s.MK is very unsafe, -6 on block which generally means that nearly anyone can reversal it with a super. Especially Kens, Chun-Lis and probably even Dudley. That also means if your opponent counters it properly you won’t even be able to shoryu after having it blocked. So it’s not a good idea to have people fish for this move:P

I mainly use s.MK when I’m anticipating a jump.


#4

it also can very easily just plain whiff against many fucking characters on their crouch. So iono how you can consider it even a meaty when it can’t hit on wakeup if they crouch.


#5

what about s. RK? is that a better option. If it’s blocked can it be punished?


#6

Dudley’s is FASTER than Ken’s/Chun’s, so it definitely works

you forget the waekup standup frame, where the 1st frame of wakeup has the standing hitbox even if you’re crouching. Only chun doesn’t have that, but against every other character a well timed sMK will definitely meaty even a crouching Oro/Ibuki

It’s a -3 on block so it can be punished by shippu, dudley sa2 and sean sa3 from any distance iirc. Rolling thunder works for sure. Other fast supers can punish it too if done from too close.


#7

>:( DAMN it…then what I’m I suppose to do against a Chun-Li with bar??? thank’s for the info, but you got me thinking lots now. Against CHun, I’m suppose to stay in the rage of her st. FP, but away from her cr. MK. I think that sounds about right, but what are you suppose to attack her with from that range?? You can’t sit there and wait for a parry, fireballz lead to a spectacular death…and now you are telling me that st. MK and st. RK are dangerous. OH man…
…thanx again for the info though…lol

Hey, can you SAIII after you block her st. FP? =3


#8

what’s the matter? Chun cannot punish blocked sHK (well, unless she’s playing SA1)
read better, i didn’t include her among character who can punish Ken’s sHK

You can’t SA3 a blocked sHP, but you can sa3 a blocked cHK (and cMP too if you are in range) if that helps


#9

Sorry HH, it’s not that I didnt read it, I just assumed :frowning: cause her super seems to come out fast. :sweat:

but you sure seem to know your stuff :slight_smile: …wish you could analyze some Daigo vidsz for us


#10

thanks, but I’m sure there are people who can analyze Ken vids way better than me (if they are willing to do that is another matter though)

though I’m not so sure about analyzing daigo vids as a “good example”. I mean, sure Daigo in his prime was a monster, but he always relies on his “ume” (psychic) skills and does a lot of unsafe stuff (and while it works often, it also makes him lose in a stupid way sometimes). Unless you are naturally gifted as a mind-reader, you better learn from more “standard way” good Ken players. I’d take inspiration from Spellmaster-J, Deshiken, Keeper.

One thing that’s pretty good to do vs Chun is baiting and then punishing whiffed cMK’s with sa3
the trick is putting yourself at a distance where chun’s cMk barely whiffs, like daigo did vs justin here [media=youtube]-_AnZ0k8zOs[/media] around 4.08
that’s quite hard do master/do consistently, but hitting it even every now and then can instill some fear into chuns and stop the free cMK spamming
oh and if you are outside cMK range but inside sHP range just buffer random high parries to catch their sHP
won’t work on good Chuns because they won’t unleash random sHP from that range most of the time (not worth the risk), but it’s very good against chun scrubs, and some mid-level ones


#11

I got thesame feeling about Daigo. I don’t have enough experience in the game and could not figure out that what he was doing was unsafe and thought that he was actually seeing thing I did not. Dankz for the names that you mentioned, I will check them out since thats exactly what I need right now (good examples).

Btw, SAIII-ing the whiffed cr. mk is how I won my last match in my first and only tourny against a Chun…it does work pretty well when she is desperate to hit you with it. Out of instinct I buffered it in…and once I saw it…BAM kick-button!! Although I lost the next match and got disqualified (._. ; …hehe…it was a great match though =3


#12

s.HK is -4 on block btw, so Chun-Li can also punish it, though it’s a lot harder for her.


#13

on theory, yes she can punish it. But remember that Chun takes 2 extra frames of blockstun on crouching block, so she just can’t reversal that after blocking it low, which is what happens 95% of the time (it’s not like you can react to sHK startup and block high accordingly.). I’ve never seen a matchvid where Chun punishes a blocked sHK, so while in theory it’s punishable, it’s not a thing that will happen most of the time, Ken players shouldn’t really be bothered much by that.


#14

Alright then, so what would you guys say is the best meaty for them to go fishing after? cl.MP looks the most promising.


#15

Even though I still can’t hit confirm IT with precision, cr. MP for me sounds like the best option (I dont even think it has to be meaty). Some-one mentioned a good fishing tactic: throw out a cr. SK, wait a bit and then cr. MP~hit confirm~SAIII

Hol Horse, I just realized that you are a neighbor Italian. We are having a big tourney in Greece…you should come down dude =) if you got some $$ to spare
You get a chance to duke it out with Ryan-Heart as well (although it seems that Tekken is getting all the attention)

Link:
http://www.greekdojo.gr/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1257

I’ll try to find and post the trailer for the tourney


#16

yeah, I heard about that. Unfortunately I won’t have money to spare, though sooner or later I’ll definitely travel to Greece, I always wished to visit it afterall, since I was 5 years old and my mom read me child adaptations of Heracles adventures lol

Ryan Hart already mopped our Italian asses in the recent tourney in Roma though, my semifinal against him went as bad as it could get :sad:
Only excuse I have is that I’m not used to fight Yun at all (NEVER get to practice that matchup since no one in the area has a good Yun)


#17

hahahah…Heracles…lol, I guess that’s a good enough reason to come down…but I could find you a couple of better things to look forward to. If you do come down, hopefully with friends and without a girlfriend…hehe heterosexual wink :wink:
…definitely send us a post @ http://www.greekdojo.gr. The guys there will certainly wanna hang-out (not just for games).

Dude, you made it to the semi-finals, that’s gotta be something. In GR we are exactly the opposite…we have a Yun that is levels above Ryan’s based on all the vids I’ve seen of him…even I can tell you so many mistakes he makes…and I don’t even use Yun, I just play against a really good one (so far he is the best SF3 player in Greece…but we don’t have many). however, I don’t know…mayb RH has better mind game. And on the other hand, we have NO good Ken player…I’m the best they got, and I started playing a bit less than 2 months ago (I can barely compete). I wish we could join forces with the Spanish and cover all players :tup: hehe Mediterranean alliance.

Now to stay a bit more on topic (not really): How is his Ken, did you get the chance to play against him? Any vids?? =3


#18

Instead of crouching strong, try Ken’s close strong fierce target combo. It’s a really easy hit confirm, ans as far as I can tell it’s safe on block (probably punishable with super). If the strong fierce connects finish with a jab shoryu if you don’t have meter. If you do have meter you can finish with super or fireball super (easier timing to get the super out). In the meantime, try to tell whether or not your opponent blocks high or low consistently. Then respond accordingly. Crouching short short super (or crouching forward if you’re good enough) for high blockers. Away and forward (command overhead) link into super, or meaty/max range UOH link into super for high blockers.


#19

Neko_Punch:

lol of course I know that there’s much more about Greece then Heracles mithology
I even studied a bit of ancient Greek at school (though I don’t remember much, and anyways it wouldn’t help me much understanding modern Greek I guess… well at least I can understand some written stuff here and there

About Ryan
From what I’ve seen in the tournament in Roma (more recent than any vid floating on the web) his Yun was quite better than what was shown in the vids, he almost never missed a combo, nailing kara-palms, ground combos on crouching characters, and even cMK, activate, cLK link which is pretty hard.
So at least in execution I’d say it was quite impressive.
The French all say that his Ken is better, and I sorta agree, but since he saw that Yun was working too well against me because I (and most other players too) wasn’t used to that stuff, of course he kept playing Yun in tournament. It’s not a case, imho, if his Yun lost against our Oro player, who is my usual sparring partner and perhaps he’s the only one who’s a bit used to play against Yun since Yun is one of my secondary characters. I actually beat his Oro with my Yun that’s nothing special, and yet he forced Ryan to switch to Ken (with success).
In freeplay I had the chance to play some of his Ken, and though he won most of the matches it felt way more dealable to me, but that’s because I know how to play vs Ken (we even had a nice mirror match that he won in the end of round 3 when I hit with back+MK and then tried to link shippu for the kill, but I didn’t notice I was barely out of range so the 1st shippu hit whiffed and he could block and kill me :sad: )
I’m not making excuses nor saying that I would have won if I knew the matchup and/or if he played Ken, because Ryan is definitely a better player than me. But sure I need to practice against that hongkong bitch, I want to stand a chance next time.

Anyways, sure, Ryan might make some mistakes here and there, but his strenght isn’t in textbook play so it’s hard to gauge his skill watching vids, since what makes him good is mainly (imho) his way above average reflexes and very strong mindgames, and those aren’t delivered well by vids. But can definitely be felt while playing, so wait for that before comparing him to the local Yun player.

Anyways, good luck for the tournament :party:


#20

THX!! =) …however I don’t think luck will do much in this case. It’s gonna be like racing a Porsche GT with a Vespa (still gonna be fun though…I’m gonna make him WORK for it…lol).
Anywayz, your story was actually a lot of fun to read!! There is definitely an adaptation factor in all this, and he has the upper hand given where he comes from (abundant competition) compared to where you come from (limited amount of peepz).
Now reading your story I gotta ask for tips (if there are any aside “practice”) on landing over-head mid-kick into SAIII =3