Meaty Setup Creation Table

makoto

#1

Made a table that makes figuring out meaty setups for Makoto easier. An explanation is included.
I’m still missing some values but most of them are of little importance.
Feel free to use, ask questions, hate, improve.
Also I’m sorry if this isn’t supposed to be posted here.
Frame Data from SRK for the most part, AE2012.

Picture Version :

Also got an Open Office / MS Excel Version but uploaded won’t let me upload it, I’ll send it to those interested.
Also if you know any values I’m missing feel free to post them here.

*Edit : Reupload https://www.mediafire.com/?a5qisfd46sm9tcs
Be aware that this is still for Arcade Edition 2012 - not many numbers changed so most of this should still apply


#2

Ethereal is da boss in this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJtjk_AQDns

Still this chart is amazing,if I have time I’ll make and post some meaties


#3

I could share my spreadsheet. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sjxcgvfzz1kqgn3/framedata%20makoto%20v1.2.xlsx


#4

Just from quickly going over this I feel like it has far more information than I can probably comprehend.
Where did you get this frame data from? They kind of differ from mine, at least hayate and fukiage, so im wondering whose are right


#5

This is all pretty rad. Does anyone know why ethereal seemed to remove a frame on each of the whiffed moves when calculating his total? I understand for the actual meaty move wanting to hit on the last active frame to maximize frame advantage, but each whiffed move should have the full value in calculating the total, no?


#6

I belive it’s due to last startup frame and first active frame shares frame (or meaby is the last active and first recovery)


#7

I actually had that in my chart and yeah pepopulo is right, the last startup and the first active frame are actually the same. This doesn’t apply to the last active and the first recovery frame though.


#8

It is actually a convention. Every published frame data does it this way. The last frame of startup is the first active frame.


#9


#10

For reading frames, don’t think of start-up as the amount of frames it takes to become active. Think about it as on which frame the move is active. So instead of a move going through start up animations for 4 frames or something, its more proper to think the move enters into active (damaging) frames on the 4th frame.


#11

Can you please explain how to read this? I want to start calculating my own meaty setups but I can’t quite figure out what you have going on here. Thanks!!


#12

Every move are in the first sheet. You need to look at their duration(total) if you want to time your meaty.After that, you need to get the meaty frame(meaty f) of the final move you want to use, it’s the meaty move.
Other sheets are dedicated to each KD you can get. Try to look at the formulas in each row to understand how it works. If you get a green 0 in the meaty column, you found yourself a perfect meaty.


#13

Someone updated the file for USF4 : https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvpb6cf727nu6y7/Rindokan_kata_tool_v1.1.ods
It’s in japanese.


#14

I tried calculating the possible variations for meaty attacks following a sweep (45f wake up which is almost every character), minus the absurd ones (like meaty fukiage for instance, lol), and starting with moves that get you closer to the target. This was the result: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=6sg5RxW0

Hopefully some of those more experienced can find something useful that they didn’t know. If you would be interested in similar stuff, or find that I made a mistake somewhere, let me know!


#15

Just a minor adjustment on the karakusa followup. There are 2 throw-invuln frames on wakeup (but also hitstun/blockstun). So you want to use lk karakusa.

You could also do this same table for counter-hit sweep. It adds 3 frames to characters’ falling animation.


#16

So if I understood correctly, I can’t throw at frame 45 nor 46 because they are throw invulnerable? What do you mean by “but also hitstun/blockstun”, can’t the character waking up do anything during those 2 frames? (reversal, backdash, jump…). I’m still pretty new to fighting games so it amazes me all the little details I keep finding out haha.
Once I get that clear I’ll generate the counter-hit one.


#17

Hey guys … I am currently searching for similar stuff for Adon … but unfortunately I am not able to find any accurate frame data for the hard and soft (quick rise) knock downs to create a list of possible meaty set ups for Adons close MP & MK … that will enable him to link his cr.hp > RFA > followup.

As it seems you guys have done a pretty awesome job here … are you able to tell me how or where I can find/create this KD timings to build last active frames perfect set ups !?

If I understand it right --> Close MK has 5 f start up and 6 active frames … so the last start up frame is the first active frame … which means I need to find set ups that hit frame tight on the 10th frame and not on the 11th frame !?

Where did you get all the accurate KD times ? And how can I get this information for Adon ?

Any help is really appreciated.

THX


#18

Personally I’m taking everything from the rindoukan bible, which has all the makoto timings (attacks and enemies wakeup times), so maybe someone else can help you with that. The shoryuken wiki has the timings for each character face up and face down on the ground, but I have no idea how you measure the time they spend in the air until he lands.

That’s right.


#19

That’s right. When recovering from blockstun/hitstun/knockdown, a character can do whatever he wants and is throw invulnerable for 2 frames. This is why sweep, empty jump, ex karakusa will whiff.


#20

Great, thanks for the explanation :). I think I have it this time, let me know if I made some other mistake:


If that’s good, I can get the counterhit sweep one in no time.

Edit: going over them more in detail now, even though almost all of them do work, others don’t make sense (f.dash > b.dash > throw for instance, since you are clearly out of range). Since I’m generating them by permutating different moves some unreal ones are bound to appear I guess. I might be able to modify the algorithm to take that into account… Anyway, trying some of them in training mode was interesting, I’ll probably be giving them a try on some matches :slight_smile: