Meaty/uncrouchable LP Bushin Flip setups

guy

#1

A while ago AcidicEnema asked me to post some LP flip setups while we were discussing the Zangief matchup. It is known that all Zangief’s reversals are throwable, but I’ve heard somewhere that if you do u+lariat it makes lariat unthrowable. However I still need to try that.

Here are some setups that come to my mind (they work on characters that get up normally)

  • c.mk -> immediately whiff st.lp -> LP flip

  • forward throw -> 2x dash forward, slight walk forward -> lp flip

  • foward throw (in corner) -> backdash, whiff c.mp, wait a tiny bit -> lp flip

  • hk tatsu in corner after hozanto/ff chain -> lp flip immediately (if they do quick getup) – however note that the timing can be screwed if the opponent delays the quick getup

  • ex tatsu in corner after hozanto/ff chain -> walk back a tiny bit -> (opp does quick getup) lp flip

  • U1 (corner, not sure about midscreen) -> dash forward -> lp flip

These are the LP setups that came to my mind. Obviously the timing to land them isn’t that easy so you’ll need to try them a couple of times in practice mode to learn the proper timings. If someone knows more, please post.
I still haven’t found a reliable setup after backthrow. From what I’ve tested it seems impossible to meaty them from it, maybe my timing was that off every time lol.

I don’t know how many people know this, but if you’ll telegraph your meaty flip setups too much, they can avoid them by lust pressing some buttons (c.lk, c.lp, c.mk whatever) and the flip simply won’t grab them.


#2

Is there any difference (other then easier timing) if you use ex bushin flip? or they can still use the same escapes. Are these setups safe from reversals? Cause a lot of times when I successfully pulled them off, opponents whiff their shit, even ryu’s dp and you either grab him or recover in time to punish him.


#3

I posted three Bushin Flip setups elsewhere, and you’ve listed two of them. Here’s the one you missed:

[media=youtube]SZ1haiTaOfA[/media] (Forward / Neutral Throw > Jump Forward > LP / EX Bushin Flip).

In the corner, this also works:

Forward / Neutral Throw > Forward Dash > Back Dash > LP Bushin Flip.


#4

This one seems to work well after you condition him to block a cross over with jump foward, jump foward, cross-up mk.


#5

Justin.tv - pjs_lizzy_the_lizardman - Homogenious: A History of Gay Inventors (Lizzy Edition V. 1) here is one setup


#6

lol that is funny and rage inducing haha.


#7

lmao. someone doesnt know how to spam c.jab on wakeup


#8

You can’t jab bushin flip IF bushin flip is perfect timed…you only get away with srk, etc. and ultra.


#9

thanks u guys for putting this in a nice consolidated place


#10

You can always mash a crouching normal to get out of it. Sakura especially can just cr.fierce everytime.


#11

This^
is true :coffee:


#12

You cant mash C.lp on wakeup if its a perfectly timed ex bushin flip after Sweep/run slide… The lp does have startup and guy grabs you on the wakeup frames…You can set guy as recorded dummy and try … its a bit harder to get than if the opponent just crouches but its possible…

Most srk and reversals are also avoided by doing it after RSL/Sweep…

Only way to actually get out 100% is backdash…but a delayed bushin flip can grab a few backdashes as well…


#13

I’m almost 100% sure you can always get out with crouching normals. Will have to check it out.


#14

No you cant I have tested it, you cant even duck in time since the grab, grabs you on the first frame on wake-up… GL mashing a 3frame or 4 frame lp in 1 frame…


#15

Guys, it’s always possible to mash normals against meaty flips. The timing may not be that easy sometimes, but it’s always possible from what I’ve tried. So basically, EX flips will become a lot less usefull against someone who knows because they it gives too much time to think. However if you do it really well the timing to stuff it is not that easy at all.

Also, another good thing to do is to time the flip higher (possibly not meaty/unchrouchable) so that if they stand, they’ll get grabbed, but if they duck, they’ll have to block the elbow always (if you do it too deep the elbow won’t even make contact with them).


#16

From what i have seen perhaps it might be possible to if u do the crr.lp with some sort of reversal timing…but mashin the lp? i doubt it would be that easy…I mean you are leaving considerably big gaps during mashin

Another question i have about bushin flip is …does it miss grabbing crouchers because of the reach? or because it is programmed to not grab crouchers…

Because I recorded a sagat dummy to do a low tiger shot and then remain crouching…with Ex i was able to grab him during the recovery…but i was never able to get it with HP/MP bushin flip


#17

From what I understand, it doesn’t grab crouchers due to programming. You can do an EX flip very deep, but it still won’t grab them.
I don’t think low tigers count as crouching, or at least they don’t after a certain part of the animation. Because (if I remember correctly) if you jump over it an punish it with a jumping attack, Sagat will be sometimes standing during his recovery.

With flips, you can do them uncrouchable pretty much only on wakeup. And by pressing some crouching normals during the ‘standing’ state of the wakeup, you actually cancel that state it seems.


#18

Double post.


#19

Triple post, damn.


#20

Tested it and you can always get out. Look at it this way, when getting up you always have 2 frames of throw invincibility. That translates to at least a 2 frame window (possibly 3) to mash the normal. You don’t need to be that tight because bushin throw only has 1 active frame. The 2 frame window gets bigger if the Guy player doesn’t have frame perfect timing (which is quite possible considering you have to eyeball the actual throw activation).

If you set a button to turbo and record the practice dummy to do any bushin throw setup it will always get avoided if you hold down the button while crouching (indicating at least a 2 frame window to press it as the turbo function only inputs every other frame). The elbow might hit, but like TChamp said, it’s actually hard to do. You’ll often be too low to input the elbow and just go into whiff animation on the ground or just get stuffed clean by a low attack .

Some characters like Guy himself and shotos have absolutely nothing to fear with these setups. Their cr.mk beats anything Guy can do, regardless of how he delays it.

As for grabbing crouchers, I don’t think the game checks whether the character is “flagged” as crouching or not, all that matters is if their throwable vulnerable box overlaps with the bushin flip throw box (which leads me to think that throw vulnerable box != strike vulnerable box). So it seems like you can’t bushin flip crouchers because the game simply limits the height at which the throw can be activated; kinda like how you can’t do a manual divekick with Akuma or Gouken if you’re too low to the ground.

Consider that on wakeup, you can actually hold downback and block low attacks, so you’re technically crouching (at least as far as strikes are concerned), but you’re still vulnerable to stuff like Hakan’s oil dive, Cammy’s Hooligan throw and Guy’s bushin throw.

The attack startup on the normal is completely irrelevant. All that matters is that the throw vulnerable box is lowered on frame 1 of the crouching attack.