Meaty?


#1

I am having a hard time understanding this term? I know you hit someone on the last active frame of this move but for instance in SF4 when I try a meaty move after a untechable knockdown I usually eat a reversal.

Plus what are the pros to hitting a meaty?


#2

Meaties lose to reversals with invulnerability. They’re good for continuing your offense pressure, landing a counterhit if your opponent likes to stand-throw on wake-up, or mash buttons like a retard.

I guess technically a safe-jump can be considered a meaty attack, and they’re quite effective because you’ll either put your opponent in block stun, or their reversal will whiff, which allows you to punish.

They’re especially useful in older games, where it’s much harder to reversal on wake-up. If your opponent misses their input, you get to land some free damage.


#3

IM guessing ST it works great?


#4

Truthfully meaty attacks aren’t as good in SF4 compared to other games due to lenient reversal windows and lots of high invulnerability fast attacks. The 3 most common reasons to use a meaty is to 1) apply pressure to a knocked down character 2)stuff reversal attempts 3) do meaty specific combos.

The first is obvious but as I said less effective in SFIV for the above mentoned reasons, ditto for #2. Ideally hitting on the last frame with your meaty will stuff a reversal that is not immediately invulnerable by beating out its hit box before it becomes active.

Meaty attacks can allow for combos that are not normally possibly by extending link potential. Think about it this way, typically you’re not hitting a grounded opponent with the last active frame of an attack meaning there are more recovery frames between the hit and when you can act again because you are recovering through those active frames.

For example in ST Bison can link 2 crouching medium kicks only on meaty since he is able to recover faster off that last active frame than when the move normally connects, hence providing the time for the link.

In SFIV you need to be very selective about who you are trying to land a meaty on with whom. To understand the concept I suggest recording Vega doing a reversal scarlet terror (flip kick) and using Makoto’s st. MP to stuff it. I think she has the ability to link 4 of them in a row on honda if she catches him meaty. For better info you should state who you are using, what move you’re trying to use as a meaty and against whom.


#5

the term meaty means overlaying your attack so that the active frame intersects with the first hittable frame of the rising opponent. the point of the meaty is to
[LIST]
[]gaining frame advantage on a particular normal
[
]stopping your opponent from jumping on wakeup (jumping has 4 frame startup)
[]stuff non invincible specials
[
]have more advantage on block and create frame traps where there is usually none
[/LIST]
note that invincible reversals like shoryuken and characters supers and some ultras can beat a meaty


#6

ST, 3s, CVS2, older games with less leniency on input and reversal windows. Meaty attacks were sometimes worth the risk, since you put more pressure on your opponent to respond, which usually leads to them eating damage or you building meter. Both good things for you.

It also allows you to land certain combos that aren’t normally possible without it being a meaty attack or a counterhit attack.

Meaty attacks are often the most effective against characters with poor reversals. For example, you can safely meaty dhalsim as long as he doesn’t have an ultra or super. The worst thing he can do is teleport away, and it’s still possible to dash up and chase him down, or even OS to punish with certain characters.


#7

Don’t think that meaties aren’t good vs characters with good reversals. They are good! You just have to make sure your opponent doesn’t have enough time to react to it. If you time a really long move such as a sloppy jump-in or long-duration special move to hit meaty (on wakeup), they are going to reversal and kill your attack if they can.

However, if you choose a quicker move, you can walk up and fake them out by not attacking sometimes (or empty jumping so that if you DONT press a button you land in time to block). If they don’t know if you’re going to attack or not, reversaling becomes risky. If you fake them out they will likely get punished with even MORE damage. If they are scared to reversal, meaty more!


#8

Think of it like this… Moves contain:
a) a certain number of start up frames
b) a couple of active frames
c) opponents go into hit/blockstun once hit by active frame
d) move recovers
e) frame advantage is block stun minus active frames/recovery

If you hit a move meaty it means you’re hitting on a later active frame… which means less recovery… which means more frame advantage… which means more combo opportunities. The thing with SFIV is that you’ve already got tons of combo options off of links that don’t hit meaty, so the best meaty combos you can come up with are usually: meaty crouch jab, sweep. Hitting meaty also makes existing combos easier to do… a one frame link could become a 3 or 4 frame link. Now since reversals are very easy to land in SFIV… you’re going to have to learn to bait reversals lots if you want to apply meaty pressure.

Vs. some slower reversals you can actually apply meaty pressure and have your move recover before the reversal becomes active. Vs. Deejay… whose reversal whiffs on crouchers, you can go for lots of meaty frame traps as well. In order to be successful though you’re going to have to apply a standard throw mixup game to find these counter hits.

Safe jumps are basically meaty jump-ins btw. Safe jumps are probably better than meaties because jumps have less recovery and are thus completely safe from 4+ frame reversals. You can also cross-up/ empty jump low short mix-up. With a meaty frame trap you’re just applying the same standard blockstring mix-ups with more advantage.

It’s also possible to hit meaties in combos though they are entirely spacing/hitbox dependent. The idea is you hit the opponent with one move, but their hitbox is pushed back temporarily during the first active frame of the next move. As a result they get hit meaty in the middle of a combo. I know Ken and Chun-Li can combo into their sweeps this way, for example, though I haven’t seen it in a real match other than once.


#9

You can safely meaty low jab a lot of reversals in SF4. Rose’s EX Spiral is too slow to hit you for doing a meaty cr.lp. Rufus’s EX Messiah is the same way. Many ultras can also be safely meatied.

Like others said, safe jumps are a specific type of meaty that hits from the air. Safe jumps allow you to safely meaty Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut and Cammy’s Cannon Spike. They have to block. Most characters can also option backdashes, and you can react to focus backdash and punish usually. This means their only option on their wakeup is block, and you’re forcing this from a completely safe option.

In SF4, meaties automatically everything beat but reversals and backdashes/focus backdash. They can’t cr.lk, they can’t mash throw, they can’t jump out. Zangief can’t SPD true meaties in SF4.