Message to new members who feel unwelcome, please read! [Repost from SF4 Forum]


#1

**Copied over from the SF4 Forum, credit going towards eoneo, thank you for writing this up!

Original thread is right here.If you want to read what other members wrote, please go there.

**

This is just my attempt to explain why people seem to be acting like assholes. I started writing this in response to a post in another thread:

You know, I’ll agree that there’s a lot of sore egos on this site. Some people just love to bitch, troll, and swing their E-dicks around (myself included). And the same is probably true for any online forum.

But one should also try to understand that this whole community has been completely flipped on its head in the past few months.

Now, I don’t mean to be, but this is also going to sound very elitist. Just try to bear with me here on this analogy:

Imagine a yearly physics symposium where people come together to discuss the very latest developments in the field. They’re talking theories that can’t be proven for another decade, or might not be proven ever, or why a past theory has become irrelevant, etc. etc. and other such topics that people who haven’t studied physics for a decade won’t be able to understand.

Then one year, a large group of high school physics students comes to the symposium for a field trip and starts asking a lot of basic physics questions. Questions like, “How do you calculate acceleration?” Or adding their two cents about theories when they don’t know where the theories came from.

Now, the regular symposium dudes are glad that the students are excited about learning physics, but a symposium isn’t the place to be teaching basic physics formulas, let alone argue about theory without knowing the basic formulas.

Complaining about the difficulty of canceling moves or how throwing is cheap is just that. It’s not relevant to the topics at hand, and wastes time and energy.

Or for a closer analogy, it’s a bit like going on a chess forum and complaining that the knight’s movements are too confusing. Can you imagine how much shit you’d get?

Now, stepping away from the analogy, I of course don’t think Street Fighter is as difficult or important as physics (well… maybe for me personally it is actually more important than physics :wgrin:), but I think the point is clear. A community that comes together to discuss somewhat advanced game tactics can’t function well when it’s being cluttered with questions and complaints about basic game operation. Or complaints about a character being “cheap.” (I’ll get to that later…)

We’re getting “server is too busy” every 5 minutes these days. And when I can finally get to reading some threads, they are constantly being derailed by beginner questions and the resultant shitstorms that follow afterward.

Don’t get me wrong. I am personally all for helping beginners. The more people that are exposed to my hobby, the more:

a) the more players, and therefore more competition,
b) the more $$$ for Capcom, which hopefully means more (hopefully good) games from them.
c) the more exposure, and therefore higher chances of it becoming less of a shitty niche hobby (aka more prize money at tourneys, and maybe more tourneys in general).

And call me what you will, but I admit that I kinda like being the veteran that posesses a pool of wisdom that scrubs want to access.

But SRK functions first and foremost a forum for high level discussion about fighting games, and therefore it never had a chance to build up the knowledge base necessary to assist people approaching Street Fighter for the very first time. Are there really any Street Fighter FAQs out there that explain that a cross-up must be blocked high? Or that trying to block a move from across the screen will only make you walk backwards? Or even how to properly execute a charge move? Of course not! These things are so beyond basic for the users on this forum, the topic never comes up.

So with release of SF4 and the recent the flood of first-timers on SRK, I think this is the perfect time for just such a basic database to be properly built. Then we hopefully won’t have this problem again in the future.

The people that are willing to help can work with the beginners to build a super basic guide for people who have never heard of Street Fighter in their lives. The unique viewpoint of the beginner is just as integral as the knowledge of the veteran, because only a beginner can see things that a veteran would take for granted (e.g. “How do I shot flamy air punch?”). I think the “THE SF4 BEGINNERS Thread! NEW? POST HERE FIRST!” thread is a perfect start.

If we can ride out the growing pains for a bit longer, I think we can build a guide that will in the future prevent the annoying repetition of silly questions, and at the same time, be a great help to people looking to learn the game for the first time. Let’s just hope that it isn’t wishful thinking.

Now, I think there are some problems that can’t be resolved by a good guide, and these problems are are laziness and kids. I admit I’m lazy, and there have probably been more than a few times when I went on some forum and asked questions without first searching for the answer myself. But a good beginner’s guide will hopefully cut a lot of that down. Kids on the other hand… well what can you do?

As for whining about something being ‘cheap,’ I hope that’s banworthy. When coming to a forum like this, a person should spend some time learning about the community and the common interest that brings them together (in this case, Street Fighter) before posting. Do you go on a chess forum and complain about Queens being able to move in any direction they want? Reading just a few posts about specific character match ups will quickly tell you that there are always ways to beat another character’s moves. In fact, that’s exactly what this community is for! To build up that knowledge base. And even before the community comes into the picture, the game PROGRAMMERS designed the game so that there is always a way to beat a move. NOTHING is unbeatable. Look at how blanka is designed specifically to get around fireballs!

Learning this complex game of paper/rock/scissors is half the fun of Street Fighter. There is absolutely no excuse for cluttering up space and tieing up servers with INANE complaints about shoto “fireball spamming” or Ken’s “flaming uppercut.” If you took 30 seconds to look through the official Ken thread, you’d find that his “flaming uppercut” is actually a terrible anti-air. A Ken player should instead be using MP shoryuken to anti-air – his HP version often gets beat by early jump-in attacks.

So in short, spend some time here reading and learning, less time bitching, and in a month’s time, you’ll feel awful silly about some of the things the new people have started posting here lately. I promise.

In the mean time, we’ll hopefully make some guides that will eventually answer all your questions, yeah?

edit: Glad that this made sense. And for those who hate reading:

TL;DR version:

**1) Clutter hurts the forums.
2) New posts are *generally *(I know, not always…) for talking about novel ideas or latest news (i.e. things that haven’t already addressed in guides/FAQs/threads).
3) Posts asking repeatedly about basic operation wastes everyone’s time, and fucks up the server.

In other words, read the text book instead of asking questions in the middle of class.**

Unfortunately, it’s going to be just a little bit hard with the search function down, but we have a beginner’s questions thread to compensate in the mean time (and even then, you should try to find an answer yourself BEFORE running to that thread). And don’t forget to check out all the other helpful threads (thanks, Dentron):

Beginner’s Q’s Thread

SF4 FAQ aka Stop Asking the Same Q’s Thread

Read Before Posting

On ‘Cheapness’

On Scrubs and Refusing to Learn


#2

lol thank god at least someone understands that and isnt comparing these forums to a “physics symposium”… ive never been to a forum that contains so many ppl getting buttsore over ppl asking simple questions its almost as if something so little can ruin someone elses day and thats just terrible… i mean god dam its a FORUM and if noob questions get you to the point of throwing your monitor out the window you might just wanna click the X…


#3

You haven’t been on SRK long enough. :rofl:

In short if you want to get better take the time to read up and improve…

But don’t come in ask… you know never mind this is exactly what Pryde’s talking about.


#4

This is a repost from Ponder, I thought this might help too
Oringial thread here, I think this is a great read. Harsh, but true.


#5

Good to see my observation of the hatred many members have of 2009 members got me neg repped. Seeing as rep has no functionality other than being an incentive for individuals to purchase premium accounts keeps me from getting mad about it.


#6

Pryde’s + rep should be much higher than it is…


#7

Interesting Physics and Chess comparisons.


#8

That’s because pretty much every other moderator maxed out their own rep groove bars and added Capcom symbols. Pryde must have decided to increase the rep groove the old-fashioned way, by earning it.


#9

Quality post.


#10

Thx, i could use this.


#11

Meh…

I dont post because, OVER ALL, most members ARE dicks. Im good by just observing from the sidelines.


#12

I can’t imagine scrubs wanting to stay on SRK after reading that.


#13

ok i realize im new but…

This is my goal for joining here.
My name is Eric Edwards I founded
prohalotips.com with pro gamer
legend pimps who played on Team Classic in Halo 3.
He is an incredible player and placed 2nd at MLG meadowlands
vs. Final Boss last year.

Our site was pretty successful and the reason
I made the site is I was a noob to halo and wanted
2 get better so I went found a pro player and paid
him for lessons. I use 2 be an avid madden gamer
and had gotten guides from maddentips.com and
was trying to find something similar for Halo cuz
I was tired of getting Pwned every 5 seconds.

Then I got a crazy idea I was like
we should make a really in depth guide and sell it.
Legend agreed and we produced the best damn guide for
H3 ever…
we sold probably 3,000 guides at 25 bucks a pop.
I have an internet marketing background and know
how to rank high in the google search engines which
was the key to our success.
Id you go type halo 3 tips in google you will find our site on
the 1st page!
The thing is kids want 2 get get good fast so myself included.
So I would like to make a site dedicated 2 sf4 stats tips combos
etc that sales a guide. The thing is I need a team of experts or
one super guru…any takers?


#14

Well… if you ask me, I dont think thats gonna work for SF4…

Im not being a hater, let me explain.
Unlike Halo players (who have a huge community), us street fighter players cant expect to support ourseles via playing (at least not yet, SF4 is reviving the scene, but its not as big as other communities).
I bet most of the people who bought your guide had the idea of going to a major tournament and winning a juicy 10,000 dollar prize (something quite possible for a halo tournament).

In this community, thats really really really weird to see.
Im sure that John Choi (who won 2 games on evo last year) didnt make more than a 5,000 dollar profit.

Anyway, my point is that 96% of our community doesnt want money (we would have quitted years ago), therefore, all the knowledge out there is free.
Gootecks made a completly free e book on how to play SF4 after being a SF3 player.
Most of the forums have info thats really valuable for players (meaning it could actually be worth some money) for free.

Everything is here, everybody has an answer for your questions and its all free, so I dont think an SF4 guide with strats etc would actually sell… since everything its easy and free to find.

Look at this http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=110648
this is a guide I made for just one character of SF3, thats easily 5 pages long, and its there for free.

Its just my opinion, good luck with that anyway.


#15

That was well put, I like this place wish I actually logged in to here more often.


#16

I got told by alot of veteran members that 09’ members are usually not taken seriously as others here, maybe cause the general stereotype of us tend to be ignorant and stupid…

I for one don’t want to ruin my own experience here in SRK, and after reading this thread, I think I have gotten a pretty good idea of how I should behave here :slight_smile: though it may be way different from other forums i’ve been to.

Cheers!


#17

I don’t have a problem with people overreacting to yet another “waht is FA lol ?” thread.

Every community on the internet jumps at the throats of newbies for doing stupid shit.

What I have an issue with, is that here, they jump at your throat even when you’re NOT doing stupid shit.

If you don’t want people ripping you a new one and bombing your rep with “fuck you” “fuck 09” or “fuck [your location]”, just don’t post.
Don’t ask questions.
Don’t call out people when they stay stupid shit (unless their join date is 09 too).
And most importantly, don’t have an opinion on anything.

Wag your tail, kiss some ass, and all will be fine.
Don’t post anything constructive in discussions, just go along with the consensus, quote an older member with a witty comment like “^this” or “qft” or “:china:”

Then, next year you can be all “fuck '10ers, how fucking stupid can you get, yadda yadda yadda”, and you’ll gain the acceptance of the herd.


#18

Very nice analogies. I think it will be much easier for new people to understand now.


#19

So much win here.

So… I agree on the flaming for simple/basic questions being made into threads. The problem lies is that if someone with a join date of 09 even has a conflicting opinion that they are instantly bombed with insults regardless if their point is valid or not.

What if that 09er has been using the INTERNET longer than you? Does that give them the right to insult you and disregard your opinions entirely? Certainly not, and it shouldn’t be that way here, either.


#20

This has happened several times in the past. The popularity of Marvel, the Daigo full parry video and the subsequent revival of 3s, the inclusion of new games at Evo, and now the releases of HDR + SF4 have all brought in a wave of new players/posters. Every time this happens, we see the same pattern of behavior. The scrubs who don’t know their place, can’t handle the heat, and/or simply don’t get it end up getting banned or leaving butthurt and the potential good posters or players figure it out: if you have nothing interesting or productive to add, STFU. As Socrates said, I know nothing except the fact of my own ignorance.

These forums are an incredible tool for anyone who wants to step their game up in almost ANY game imaginable. You can have any question from the most inane to some of the highest level shit possible answered if you’re just willing to do a little digging. If you’re willing to throw that away because someone neg-repped you or insulted your ability to post, play, or spell, we’re not interested and we’re happy to see you go. Yeah, there are some people here who are douchy and elitist and are more willing to ignore/insult/dismiss anyone simply because of their join date. It’s childish behavior, no question… but by the same token, if you’re so thin-skinned that you can’t handle a little ribbing, you’re not going to survive long here anyway and you should probably just take your ball and go home.

Rather than go on forever and mostly just cover the points that have already been made, I’ll end with this: the members of this site as a whole are always excited to welcome new blood in to the fold and the release of new games is a great opportunity to help grow the community. However, while the forums allow anyone to sign up, we don’t let just anyone join. So my advice to any new member of SRK (whether it’s an “09er” or anyone from here on in): put on your big boy pants, be willing to accept that you’re not as knowledgeable as those who’ve been here for 5-15 years, and for a good chunk of time, you might wanna consider doing a lot more reading and a lot less writing. It will benefit us all in the long run.