Meterless tiering?

#1

I was wondering on who are the best characters when meterless.
It would seem an useless post, maybe…
but I think it can be useful on starting matches.
On round one, both opponents have no meter.
If character A has good meterless options, while character B needs to charge to start beastin’, wouldn’t be logical for character A to rushdown at the beginning and capitalize before B gets meter?

I need help from more experienced players/posters of course

Alex - average, I’d say
Akuma - very good. He already doesn’t have EXes, so his game is not really changed. He still has tons of options, and can deal good amounts of damage without meter.
Chun Li - below average. Her normals are still very annoying, but without SAII ready she’s not too scary. She can’t even use the annoying EX SBK
Dudley - I don’t know. Average, maybe.
Elena - ditto
Hugo - can be suprisingly good. Facing meterless opponents keeps less pressure on him, and he doesn’t rely on EXes
Ibuki - ehr— average?
Ken - average. Less hazardous in air without the EX tatsumaki.
Makoto - don’t know. Her letting her get a karakusa at this point doesn’t lead to big damage. But she’s still confusing.
Necro - don’t know
Oro - ditto
Q - well, he suffers less than most of the cast fore not having meter… use that time to deal damage OR to get the taunts in before it’s too late?
Remy - :(. His EXes are too useful.
Ryu - average?
Sean - he sucks anyway :stuck_out_tongue:
Twelve - don’t know, he’s too weird in playstyle… EXes can be useful, but even then he won’t be going for a big combo
Urien - urgh. I hate being meterless.
Yang - quite good. Jab slashes are very annoying to deal with.
Yun - good. I think he’s a bit below Yang when meterless, but I may be wrong.

oh and please don’t flame me if said something stupid, I don’t have much experience with some characters and anyway I’m here to learn.

#2

Twelve I dunno about…EX F.L.A.T. is awesome but his supers are garbage. I still say below average, mostly due to his lack of damage.

Q would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of this, as he can taunt on almost any meterless opponent without fear (or, rather, a lot of fear). Yes you’re going to eat free hits, but they won’t mean nearly as much anymore. There are exceptions of course (Akuma, Hugo, Dudley spring to mind).

Oro would be around average, maybe a little above. He is the king of mobility (double-jump, quickest dashes, probably the best superjump as well, and air chicken to change the time he spends in the air), he has a very strong ground game that can compete with almost anyone’s in terms of priority, damage, and stun, and he himself is very hard to stun. He can also still dish out good damage and mixups via the chicken combos.

-Josh

#3

u say makoto cant deal damage and shit… ok lets say she starts without meter beginning of the round… do you know how much it takes to get an EX hayate with her? something like one parry, one whiffed strong and karakusa, fierce and there you go: you have enough meter for an EX…

and without it? after hayate… or fake hayate, dash in, jump over, do whatever you want… makoto is never meterless for more then 10 seconds… seriously

and oro the same after he gets a close mp in… chicken combo gives wayyy too much meter

#4

I’d say Ken would still be top even without meter.

#5

I think it would hurt Q a lot. He would lose his most damaging combos (anything involving a super, c&db to EX rush punch to standing roundhouse, jumping fierce to close standing forward to EX slaps, jumping fierce to close standing forward to EX rush punch to standing roundhouse), his quickest full-screen attack (EX low rush punch), and a great pressure/meaty attack (EX slaps), not to mention you lose much of the fear aura you can create with his very high attack damage and very high defense. He’d still have to worry about some opponents when taunting, and some of those that he wouldn’t he wouldn’t have to worry about anyway, assuming you aren’t in close range. Also, he basically wouldn’t have anything to do on wakeup. All of his moves come out too slowly to be a serious and consistent threat when he’s waking up (that is, he has nothing like a dragon punch to make opponents think twice about sticking an attack out). The only thing he has right now, really, is a super. Q needs every trick he can get. He’s already one of the worst in the game; take away his supers and EXes and he’s that much worse. Having an easier time of taunting doesn’t do a whole lot of good if you have a harder time of dealing damage.

I think Ken would still be top tier too. Ken doesn’t kick my Q-using ass because he can combo or link into SAIII. SAIII will do, oh, ten, maybe fifteen pixels of damage to me when it’s in a combo and I’ve got full taunts? The only real loss he would have is the EX air hurricane kick. He would still have a crapload of other tricks up his sleeve.

I think Chun Li would still be a force too. She’d still have crazy priority, nice speed, a great kara throw, some sweet mix ups, and so on. That said, a huge portion of the damage she deals is due to SAII. Without it she has to work a lot harder. Same thing with Yun and the loss of SAIII.

I think Akuma gets a lot better. If no one can EX or super him, his pathetic defense becomes less of an issue. If virtually any character lands two super combos on him in a round, he’s dead; some can kill with one. Akuma is a good character aside from the pansy defense, which, if the opponent can no longer deal a lot of damage at once, becomes much less of a flaw.

#6

Dudley needs his EX MGB! Other than that, not much of him changed. Except that his threat of high/low game into super is gone.

#7

hey i got a question (dont flame please).

ok it has different variations of the same question.

if third strike didnt have supers, just ex bar usage would it be a better game?

and 2

if third strike had no bar usage (ex’s and supers) whatsoever would it be a better game?

edit: my answer.

  1. i thought about this reading through the one posters thoughts on how meter affected the game play and reading what his opinions were from character to character it looked like each one just had to work harder to land big damage but could still do heaps of damage.

like elena’s all ex combo of ex hcb kick, into ex hcf punch, into ex dp does more damage than crouching strong into brave dance. they can both be started the same way (cr. strong) and they both use the same meter but more than likely enough the extent of skill to landing brave dance is hit confirming the crouching strong…

hit confirmation is a skill that higher leveled players use so i’m not putting it down but that’s the only benefit of having the super. if hit confirmation is built on from playing, and hit confirmation wasnt possible for the super then there’s no reason to have it if a character can deal out the same or better damage without it based on skill.

  1. i think bar is a useful in adding a deeper level to the fighting. without it the fight wouldn’t “evolve” and change through out the course of the fight. and rewards aggressiveness because doing stuff builds bar, and bar makes u a better character.

too much bar is pointless BS coughcoughkencoughcough

while multiple stores of a bar and moves that dont do massive damage by itself is good in my opinion…

but then again one huge bar and massive damage is lame unless it requires knowledge and skill to land that super.

so chun having sa2 to make up for her lack of damage done normally isnt really needed, she could be played as high mid tier if played with Twelve like patience and skill.

dont mind me i’m a little baked…

#8

I say the bar gives people the chance to turn the tide of the game. Honestly i cant remebr how many times EX CBKor EX RRF have saved my skin over and over again. The game woudl peak alot earlier too not leaving much to the imagination in game play style.

Think of it this way, what woudl akuma be w/o Raging demon?:smiley: