MikeZ's Notes on the MvC3 E3 Build

This is way more comprehensive than I thought it would be so it’s kind of a long read. I want to try to get this posted on the front page, so please nominate the as an article. Thanks for writing all of this, Mike.

The goal of this article is to explain what I learned of MvC3?s mechanics during E3. I am trying to keep personal bias out of the article as much as possible, and simply list comparisons between this game and MvC2. (I didn?t play TvC enough to know anything except the most basic gameplay, so I can?t compare MvC3 to both games, sorry.) I figure the community deserves a writeup by someone who doesn?t think calling assists during specials is a ?missing feature?, though. (^.^)

Disclaimer: All information below was verified by testing, but I only got to play by myself for 2.5 hours, so some may be inaccurate. And don?t forget, this game is in development so Capcom can always change it, and probably will. As much as you want to, do not judge the final product by the E3 demo. It could be better, it could be worse.

DHCs seem the same, so I am not describing them.

Level 3 supers like Final Justice or Get a Life* were disabled in the E3 build, I was told.

[* = my made up name for the Deadpool super that Capcom described.]

Basics: 4 attack buttons and 2 assist buttons.

A ? weak attack, equivalent to TvC?s A. Most characters can rapid-fire either standing A, crouching A, or both. Crouching A hits low, as far as I noticed.

B ? medium attack, equivalent to TvC?s B, combo filler.

C ? hard attack, equivalent to TvC?s C. Crouching C is a knockdown trip for most characters (for Iron Man, crouching B is a knockdown, similar to previous games).

E ? Capcom called this ?Exchange?, so it gets ?E?. A combination of MvC2 Fierce and RH. On the ground this is your only launcher, and there is no crouching version, so it is only one attack animation always. In the air it is your only knockdown strike, which causes MvC3?s version of Flying Screen. E attacks are not special or super cancelable, and the only thing you can do from standing E is superjump.

During an air combo, you can use it as a knockdown or, if you hold Fwd or Down and press it, you will midair tag (?Exchange?, I guess it should be called :^) to the next character in DHC order. Down+E tags the next character in from the same side you?re on, and Fwd+E tags them in from the opposite side so you can combo the other way. At least that?s how it seems to work, so that each has a different use.

You can only Exchange 2x per air combo, so like DHCs you can?t go back to your original point character. If you relaunch, though, maybe you can. Exchanging seems to reset damage scaling mostly, like DHCs do, so it is usually much better than just ending your aircombo, except for the combo breaker part discussed below.

If you go for an Exchange in an air combo, and your opponent holds the same direction you used and hits E during the small pause as you tag, they will escape from your combo with a counterattack Exchange of their own, and can continue a combo from it. There is no meter requirement for this. I am not sure if it is possible to tell visually which direction was used during the pause, so it may end up guessing/knowing which direction the opponent wants to combo you. There seems to be no penalty for guessing wrong / trying to escape if the opponent doesn?t Exchange.

** It appeared that if you were fast enough, you could press F+E, D+E during the pause and always guarantee an escape, but I may be wrong.**

Assist 1 and 2 ? pressing the button by itself calls the assist character. Back+button tags to that character, but Capcom already stated this is being changed/fixed to allow defensive assists. You are restricted from calling assists the same way as in MvC2 ? not during blockstun/hitstun, specials, supers, or superjump. However, you can call them during Flying Screen now.

Assists come in much slower than they do in MvC2, and they will still attack even if you are hit (possibly a bug). If you call one, then enter a state like superjump where you couldn?t call after you press the button but before they decide to come out, they will not come out. Life regain on assists is incredibly much faster than MvC2. Assist characters can be hit, but cannot be comboed very well?see the Infinite Prevention section.

QCT+Assist is snapback, and functions mostly the same. Double snaps (assist+point) leave the assist on the floor in front of you and do allow you to combo them, but combos on assists don?t work very well. I could not get double snap, E E E E (launch till death) to work, the assist always either left offscreen or the E would go through them.

Mechanics: (Tag, Baroque, jump, dash, blocking, OTGs, recovery, links, air combos and y-boost, flying screen, infinite prevention)

2P refers to any 2 of A/B/C together. E does not count as an attack in this regard.

Tag ? I don?t know where to put this, so?hitting with a regular tag acts like XvSF/MvC1, not MvC2; no free combo.

Baroque ? when you are down to 1 character, one time only you can press Assist?this may be the wrong command, heh, I just hit every button?and do a Baroque. (Basically a Guilty Gear Roman Cancel - for those unfamiliar with the term, it automatically resets you to neutral out of any move you were doing.) It raises your damage and defense by 20% each, and is timer based, so you can do more than 1 combo with it. The timer on it lasts until you are out of red bar. You can cancel out of supers with it, so you can effectively DHC to yourself once.

Jumping ? if you have both a doublejump and an airdash (like CapAm), using the double jump removes your ability to airdash, and vice versa. Manual superjump-cancels (s.A xx superjump) were not present, only the automatic superjump after an E. There are no normal launchers except s.E.

Jumping normals are not airdash cancelable, but are jump-cancellable?Felicia could do j.B xx doublejump, for example, but could not do j.B xx airdash.

Dashing ? Any 2P will dash, B+2P will backdash. Airdash seems standard-issue, only Hulk couldn?t?even CapAm and Felicia could do it. Iron Man had 8way dash, Morrigan had CvS2 ground dash (float up). Characters start falling as soon as you attack from a dash, even 8way, but they keep forward momentum ? think Sol Badguy, not MvC2 Magneto/Storm. Right after you start an airdash there is a short period of time where you cannot attack, again like Guilty Gear, so doing horizontal ad.A with MvC2 trijump timing will result in no attack coming out. This means that even though Iron Man can triangle jump extremely low to the ground, he can?t attack before landing, you will land and get a cr.Short instead…and Morrigan can?t instead overhead with a short dash like she could in CvS2, since she isn?t allowed to immediately attack after dashing.

8way dashing into the floor will land as soon as you touch the ground, whereas in MvC2 you would complete your dash animation before landing.

Blocking ? Any 2P will pushblock?ahem, I mean Advancing Guard. Pushblock animation lasts for somewhere between MvC2 and TvC length, you can?t TvC mash it by any means. Pushblock Guard Cancel is not present.

OTGs ? Only certain moves can OTG; the majority cannot. Deadpool?s air super, Hulk?s Gamma Wave and Quake (only the rocks, not his hand), and Dante?s Icicle are examples of moves that can OTG. I am guessing it is only projectiles. Using an OTG seems to speed up the Infinite Prevention effect. Upon being OTG?d you seem to go straight to air hitstun, no special OTG stun.

Instead of OTGs, many moves that would knock you down in MvC2 (Iron Man?s cr.B slide, Felicia?s roll->slide) now pop you up into the air a bit instead. Iron Man can do cr.B->E, and Felicia can do roll->slide, cr.A. As well, they added the floor bounce effect (common in other airdash games) to a lot of moves that were knockdowns in MvC2, and you are freely juggleable during a floor bounce.

Recovery ? To borrow BlazBlue terminology, there are bounce-techs. Hitting A/B/C just as you land on the floor will quick-rise, with A moving a small distance and C moving a large distance. You can also use F+A/B/C to roll toward/through your opponent, somewhat like MvC2. There are knockdown attacks where you can bounce-tech, like cr.C, and attacks where you can?t, like being hit by a tag.

If you don?t bounce tech, after lying on the ground for a while you can hold Fwd/Back to roll forward/backward before getting up, like Darkstalkers or BlazBlue. The rolls are invincible, and you cannot stop your opponent from being able to do one.

After being allowed to recover from a hit in the air, your character pops up a bit. This makes MvC2-style resets mostly impractical. Also, possibly due to Infinite Prevention, you will automatically recover at odd times ? if you are hit in the air by a Shinkuu Hadoken, you will pop out halfway through and can block, or in some cases punish Ryu.

Links ? I only want to mention that I couldn?t find any normal-to-normal links using regular hitstun. Moves have such long recovery that it appears chains, launchers, air jumpcancels, and special hitstuns like floorbounce or knockdown are the only way to extend your combos, even in the air. Blockstun seems longer to compensate for this.

Air combos and Y-boost ? There seems to be no y-boost, at all. All moves in the air seem to cause the same reaction (moving the opponent upward slightly), no matter what your character is doing, even moves that were knockdowns in previous games. CapAm?s j.D+C (MvC2 j.D+RH) does the same thing as his j.A. The only normal knockdowns are j.E?s.

Flying Screen ? Doing a j.E in an aircombo (even as just 1 hit after a launch) will cause the camera to focus on the enemy, as MvC2 flying screen did. If your character goes off the left or right side of the screen (not the top), they will come dashing back in on the ground. Setting Flying Screen does not restrict your actions at all, and most j.E?s cause some floor bounce, so comboing after Flying Screen is more common. Doing jumpin->ground series->air series->(Exchange combo)->j.E, ground series xx ground super, DHC, DHC seems to be the standard combo formula.

Infinite Prevention ? Rather than keeping undizzies as guaranteed escapes, MvC3 goes with the shortening-hitstun approach, like Guilty Gear/Blazblue. After the Infinite Prevention is triggered in a combo, moves cause nearly no hitstun, and the opponent can block out of your combo. This means that simple tall-character [j.A->A->B->B->C, land] will not work as an infinite, which is good. However, just like GG and BB it has the downside that the opponent tends to escape from regular non-infinite combos at strange times. If you start your combo with one extra wrong hit, the end of it will be blockable, or most supers and specials which are multiple hits won?t connect for the entire thing - allowing the opponent to punish you for getting hit by a Shinkuu Hadoken/Danke?s QCT+2P super/Chris? grenade launcher super at the wrong time in a combo.

1-Pixel Rage - There was an extra feature I missed mentioning; not sure what to call it, but basically if you are comboing someone and you bring them down to 1 pixel of life during a long combo, from that point it will take a few extra hits to kill them, no matter what hits they are, even though they should already be dead. If you drop the combo before you do those hits, they stay at one pixel but it still takes the extra hits to kill. I think this was done to add artificial suspense, since you get some more 1-pixel survival, but it felt odd.

A different perspective on MVC3 (for Marvel players)

So the news coming out seems to make it pretty clear that MVC3 is not really like the other Marvel games at all. While the rest of the (non-COTA) games had a very similar and consistent engine in the way that trips, rolls, OTGs, flying screen, air combo finishers, etc. worked, MVC3 is obviously a completely different game.

Originally, I was somewhat disturbed that MVC3 is following more in TVC’s footsteps than in the footsteps of the other Marvel games. However, I think that in retrospect, it’s a little easier to swallow when I consider the following:

  1. Ignore the names: the 2D Marvels are a completely different game than MVC3. The characters have similar moves, but ultimately, COTA-MVC2 have no more in common with MVC3 than the Alpha series does with SF4. I’ve seen someone use the moniker “Capcom vs. Marvel” and I think it fits.

  2. TVC was the test bed for this new Marvel game. With the TVC versions of Ryu/Morrigan being almost directly dumped into MVC3, this seems obvious. I’m just glad that they tested stuff like Mega Crash and nerfed assists in that game, and not this one.

Would I have liked to see another Marvel game? Sure. But I think that MVC3 still has the capability to be a good game in its own right. In the same way that there will never be another SF2*, there won’t be another Marvel game with the same gameplay as the 2D Marvels. The Marvel series ended in 2000; this is a Vs. series game that happens to have Marvel characters in it.

*MVC2 HDR notwithstanding, I hope

Great unbiased, and informative read.
This is the kind of stuff the community needs.

Just present the information and let the players decide if they’re interested in playing or not.
Thanks for taking the time to test & write this up for us MikeZ.

I’ll go ahead and nominate this as well. Info definitely deserves front page.

Just wanted to add that the reason people are complaining is that they want this to be a really deep, complex, fun game that follows in MvC2’s footsteps.

Look at the difference between how every Mortal Kombat since UMK3 was received and the reception that MK9 is getting. The former group (all the 3-D MKs), no one who liked UMK3 cared because it was so different and scrubbed down. MK9 is announced and people are flipping-out excited. MK9 will not be a carbon copy of UMK3 and no one’s asking for that. But obviously MK9 is putting in features and a gameplay style that excites old players AND new players.

Marvel 2 was much more commercially successful than UMK3 and is more relevant to today’s gaming culture – so if the MK makers have figured out “Appeal to the people who loved your game in the first place” at last, what in the world is Capcom doing basing this off of TvC? Keits said “TvC did better than CoA expected”. That’s great, but there’s no way it was as remotely successful as Marvel 2, the game this is supposed to be the sequel to!

Even if it’s TvC2 it might be fun and a great game, we won’t know until it comes out. But why make it so vastly unsequel-like in the first place, that’s what I don’t understand, when it was a huge success for the company. It’d be like Ford making the Mustang, discontinuing it, then releasing a new sports car called the My Little Pony that no one really pays attention to, then relaunches the Mustang but with the My Little Pony chasse and engine.

I don’t mind MvC3 being different but I hope more of the COTA versus series is intact by the end. Also it’s interesting that MSHvsSF is the most fair-and-balanced versus game and the least played.

Yes, people complaining that MvC3 will fix MvC2’s “problems” while it looks like it will be taking MSHvsSF foot steps but to a more extreme level and likely people will drop it for the previous and future games as was done in the past. The infinite prevention system and the counter exchange system just seem like problems and limit how good the game can be. No air dash canceling of normals, doing a double jump removing air dash, no push block guard cancel, etc are more limitations. Having an assist come out even when the point character is hit seems like it might be abused and I heard that you can’t double snap and infinite punish assists any more, and since assists have faster life recovery now, it seems like punishing assists will be more difficult now. Having your assist come out even if you’re hit, if this is true according to the current data, will allow for more defensive game play and increase turtling. We’ll have to see what the assists are like and how they can be used to control space in addition to the point character’s natural ability to control space. What made MvC2 fun for many is not just the ability to call assists constantly from different situations such as Mag box jump psy but the ability to be able to punish them as well and the opponent knowing that mashing his assist might make him lose the assist. Speaking of which, it seems that we don’t have the same freedom of assist calling according to Mike that we did in MvC2, which is again more limitations. Mike also discusses the utility of the exchange button, and this is what MvC2 players expected and were talking about and the current exchange button is not a fourth attack button as the MvC2 community has already explained. The limitations of the light, medium, heavy, exchange button system have already been addressed by the MvC2 players in the button configuration/layout thread. Also I forgot to mention that MvC2 had not only rush down, but runaway, trap/zoning, etc characters as well. Will this diversity of game play styles exist in MvC3?

I’m still worried because NYC had a major tournament and there were MvC2, CvS2, HDR, UMK3, 3S, MBAA, SF4, etc, and TvC was dropped because everyone thought it was boring and no one entered. I’m hoping that maybe if MvC3 fails that Capcom might not drop the series and maybe fix it via patch or something. Again, Capcom, if the game won’t do well please don’t drop the series. I like Dante and some of the new supers. While this thread may be the MvC2 players’ perspective, I pretty much play all games and not just MvC2 so my post isn’t just another MvC2 player’s perspective but for a game that is carrying the Marvel and Capcom versus title, I’m sure all true MvC2 players can agree that the game has far too many limitations which can and will limit how good the game can be.

Also, people need to remember:

I think a big problem with TvC is that it’s on the Wii only. Most gamers have the Xbox or PS3 and on top of that they have the networks for competition. I myself have wanted to try TvC ever since it came out but it just hasn’t been convenient so I gave up on it. I think MvC3 is going to be at least as popular as SF4 regardless of how good or bad the game is.

holy shit you can’t airdash cancel normals?



hold on??? why did nobody post this before? i just automatically assumed that was in… how did nobody notice?

i think i missed that. so I can’t jump, smart bomb, dash? What about just jumping weak hit, dash?

Nope. Not allowing canceling of normals via dash and removing dash ability if used double jump was expected. The methodology behind these implementations is to remove complexity and diversity of mobility and attack angles in order to restore balance. MvC2 had a very deep and complex air game, which seems to be nonexistent in MvC3 when looking at it from a MvC2/XvsSF/etc perspective.

This should still work. It has no cancel in it.

I did notice that Iron Man seems to have a double jump? Seems pretty redundant and excessive.

that wasn’t air dash up?

I’m interested in what people think about runaway. In that one interview Seth talks about how Storm(?) can’t run away and STORM STORM STORM to meter. But as I currently understand it, while Storm won’t get meter: you won’t either, right? So what’s to prevent someone with a lead from running away? In Marvel at least the guy grounded can build meter too and build up a chance to get back in the game. The new design, while benefitting from whatever they do to nerf runaway, would seem to be more prone to runaway being an abusable tactic, not less…

Do you get meter for blocked attacks?
Do you get meter for assists that hit? How about blocked assists? How about whiffed assists?

That’s exactly what I said in the comments on Keits’ impressions article, too. The problem wasn’t meter it was the life lead. I saw Felicia do a old school kof style ‘dbz charge’ to get meter, but I dunno if that’s one of her specials or universal.

I think that was his air dashing upwards, like what debs said.

Its a special she’s had since Vampire Savior. I believe it’s Down, Down + AB to do it in MvC3.

I was just thinking and realized something. Another thing MvC2 players enjoyed in MvC2 was not just normal dash canceling, but flight. You know, fast flies, unflies, reflies. Since you can’t even cancel a normal with an air dash because Capcom doesn’t want to extend mobility, normal chains, and resets, I think it’s safe to assume that the flight game is over. MvC2 beginner level Iron Man game play may be just smart bomb spam and assist into infinite, but the current canceling limitations are seriously going to limit Iron Man’s game.

Is Mike Z still around here? What it his opinion on diversity of character game play styles in MvC3?

Couldn’t agree more. When I heard Seth mention that you can’t build meter unless you’re hitting someone I raised an eyebrow. Not to mention the fact that you could catch a runaway storm in something while she was trying to build said meter. He acted as if it was some kind of impossible-to-beat tactic.

I dunno, I never really had issue with storm running away to build her meter… that was just another tactic to have to figure out. And besides, it was pretty much just storm that was such a headache when it came to that. She was the best runaway character in the game. To completely take out that option just because of Storm seems strange. And like you said, if she’s doing it to build meter… you can too while on the ground or chasing after her. What is the big deal?

Capcom is looking at trends. SF4 players were very vocal about runaway tactics, so obviously, Capcom said hey this is bad, we need to remove it in all our fighters.

Alot of people also complained about the way 3s built meter using whiffed normals so…yeah Capcom was listening a little too much.



That ain’t no airdash.

Spider-dan is right. And repolster blaster covers the entire screen? wtf, i should rewatch these vids. Lots of little things I missed that look stupid.

And no one brought up moving/jumping before fight starts to be stupid?

Also, 53-56sec, When the guy is doing the super to Iron Man, it doesn’t kill but leaves him with 1 pixel? That super doesn’t kill in this game?

And last thing, I will call Mike Z and ask because I don’t think he will post here, but if I do a double/triple team up super, my point character can start moving/attacking after his super is done even while the other characters are doing there super? I will try to find the video for this