Mindset of the "Scrub"


#1

Got this friend who is pretty good at melee and other games. He tells me he plays MvC2 against computer sometimes at home. He randomly starts bashing Storm, Magneto and Sentinel as not being very good characters. He tells me Jin is better than all of them so I showed him some magneto vids on zachds. He scoffs at the vid though and say he’ll never let me get hit by any of that.

He then gets into an argument with me that this and all fighting games are balanced. He’s on of those “Every character has a weakness which balances them out” kind of person. So I said I’d make a thread about him and here we are.

Discuss


#2

ok to the guy that thinks jin can beat mag, he’s right, but thats only if the guy understands well enough the game to win with a character like jin, im sure that there are teams that you can use jin and win with, but magneto ain’t the second best character for nothing, he has more potential than jin, so chances are…jin will never beat mag, without being in the hands of some randomly insane player.


#3

yah ofcourse jin+assist will beat solo Mag but solo jin vs. solo mag will never really have a chance.

Also Mags is third best IIRC


#4

yes extreme mag is 3rd, but lol @ ur friend. only way jin will beat mag is if the mag sucks. i know dasrik will come by any minute and go on about tools jin can use to beat mag =. but anyways yeah just own him with sentinel if anything and make him stfu.

EDIT:LMAO jin can never beat mag. didnt see the part where u said he could beat mag with assist. only takes 1 hit with mag to kill jin


#5

“If someone limits all the possibilities that are available, then the person will not grow.”

That’s the basic mindset of this guy, and any guy who says anything similar to that. I’ll give you an example.

During the summer, when I was learning how to play Scrub, and how that team works, I had just beaten someone with MSP. The next person that I played, was someone who played Juggs/Jill/Tron. I played defensive, and OCV’ed him with Sent. And so, he tries again, same team, same result. And then he says that, “you’re cheating! you’re not supposed to fly!”. I looked him and said, “isn’t it what you’re supposed to do with Sent though???”. And so he played one more time, and I started Cable, the same result ensued, only with a lot quicker time since AHVB’ing two of his characters is always fun to do. Afterwards, he goes off very angry at me, and I said, “think about what you did wrong in this match, and not on what characters make you angry”.

The thing is about this guy, he still is at the same level that he was this past summer, while I’m playing against better comp, and actually keeping up with them. The only reason for this though is because I did and still do whatever it takes to get better, while that person plays within his own set of boundaries, or in his little world, where he things Juggernaut is god and Storm is low tier. Until he accepts that there is more to this game than Juggs/Tron, which is pretty damaging in the right hands, he will not realize his potential in this game, and that in itself is a shame.

The mindset of a scrub, according to my experiences and all, is he thinks within his own little world, and not accepting what the norm is in a certain aspect of something, in this case, the person described in the first post, said that Jin gives Magneto a hard time. However, I am pretty sure that the person who says that has seen a very speedy, and intellegent Magneto, let alone knowing all the tools that Magneto has to him, or why Magnetos 96% of the time win tournaments. He either does not have these things available to him, or he just does not want to listen to it, and that also is a shame.

Anyway, these are some of my thoughts on scrubs in Marvel. Speaking for myself, I am really appreciative of all of the tools that are out there for use today, and also the advice that people give, and the advice that I will continue to get. If it wasn’t availiable to me, I would not be where I am today. So thanks to all who make that possible.

As always, I hope this helps you.


#6

Sweet got more stuff today

"Magneto isn’t as fast as wolverine"
Yah this was quite an argument. I said Magneto has a faster dash, faster moves, faster everything and he just ignored those statements. Then I said Mags has more maneuverability with an airdash. He contested this by saying Wolvie doesn’t need and airdash as he can wall jump.

“Storm’s moves are slow and easily counterable”

“Sent is slow as hell”

“Magneto is bad cuz he lacks distance moves”

Top chars in his eyes:
Spiderman
Psylocke
Amingo
Hayato XD
Sabertooth
T. Bonne (I let him have that one out of pity… but then again he did mostly mean on point)
Wolverine
Thanos (he says “definitely him” I guess he’s blinded by the fact that Thanos has 4 super.)


#7

wow if ur noob friend hasnt seen some vids slap him in the back of the head =. lol@mag needing range when he can get close to you in less than half a second. lol@sentinel being slow when u can cancel normals with fly and stomp on him. lol@storm being slow =. wtf storm is one of the fastest.


#8

Basically, you’re going to have to beat it into him. That’s the only way he’ll learn.


#9

Direct him to this post if you like.

There are limits to how good you can get with certain characters. The game is definantly not perfect as far as balance is concerned.

Example 1:

One character cannot do any attacks or block, another character can.

Which character is better? You can only work with the options given to you unless you’re going to go in and reprogram the game. It’s true that many times you can still win with low tier characters, however that takes more knowledge and effort alot of the time. I play low tiers 80% of the time, I play Zangief teams against actually good players if that gives you a idea of how much I like low tiers. However, that does not mean they are just as good as the top tier (magneto, storm, sentinel, and cable).

“Magneto isn’t as fast as wolverine”

Yes wolverine’s dash may be faster than magneto, however

  1. Magneto has alot more ways to get in damage via tri jumps/mixups, and guard breaks and does more damage each time he lands a hit. I’ll explain this since he may not know what I mean:

Tri Jump: Magneto does a air dash (directed down+foward) as close to the ground as possible and then cancels the air dash into a attack (usually down+lk) the result a approximately 4-5 frame overhead (must be blocked high/standing) which is followed by him landing where he can do a 1 frame low hitting attack (must be blocked low/down+back) that can lead to 50-100% damage. It’s called a tri jump because he moves in the form of a triangle basically. Anyways this of course leads to many ambigous mix ups (hard to block attack patterns) even in it’s most basic form (attack high then low, double overhead, attack high then throw, attack twice in the air and launch, fake out attacking high then attacking low ect.), but that’s not even counting the fact that magneto can easily cross over to the other side and force you to block the other way in order not to be hit and comboed (he also can do it in such a way that you’re not sure what side of you he’s on, and remember you block by holding back and what back is depends on which side the opponent is in relation to you).

Compare and Contrast:

1)Wolverine’s damage potential is ridiculously low compared to Magneto (the maximum damage he can do in a single combo) he can do around 43-53 damage while Magneto can very easily kill you in two or less comboes.

  1. Wolverine 143% damage on each attack while magneto only takes 106% or so damage with each hit.

3)Wolverine’s best normal does not hit low and takes two frames to come out (c. lp) while Magneto’s best normal does hit low and only takes 1 frame to come out (c. lk, fastest possible attack in the game).

  1. Wolverine does not have any reliable overheads that lead into any type of decent damage without some really risky/funky assist games, he really doesn’t have any way to trick you into landing in his comboes or doing alot of damage. Magneto does have a reliable way to trick his opponent into getting hit by comboes in his tri jump.

  2. Magneto can dash in 8 different directions anywhere on the screen, Wolverine can only wall jump in one way and only when he reaches a corner. In this game mobility is very important in avoiding and countering other players.

That’s the jist, you can play as wolverine effectively, but it still doesn’t mean he’s as good as Magneto overall…it’ll take you alot of work and effort to beat someone. For every hit they land you’ll need to land five, for every time they trick you you’ll need to trick them twice as much, for every mistake they make you’ll take 5 times as much damage when you make the very same one. That is the very definition of unbalanced. It’s fun to play low tiers, and it’s still possible to win however some characters simply have better tools than others. I mean even the best zangief players in the world can’t cover their assists worth a damn against a beam, you’ll have to do the universal low tier assist save and try to super jump to the other side of your opponent (zangief’s super jump sucks ass if that wasn’t enough). Just don’t be blind, you can clean a floor with a tooth brush, but it doesn’t make it just as good as a mop. Now low tiers and wolverine both have their unique own merits (such as Joe Zaza’s perpetual block stun wolverine tactics), but overall it’s easy to see why people consider these characters better than the others…they simply have more advantages and tools than the rest of the cast.


#10

No, Jin sucks.

To thread starter, when he picks Thanos hold up-back for the whole match, see how long he continues to think Thanos is top tier.


#11

You’re in New Jersey… drag him to 8 on the Break (Dunellen, NJ) or Chinatown Fair (Chinatown, Manhattan). He’ll get scraped and stop boring you.


#12

naw jin sucks. but wolverine can beat mag. :smiley:


#13

I’ll play Sim vs. his Wolvie… or Jin o_O… or one mag vs. 3 Jins… or a box of croutons vs. his glass of milk! DAMMIT, and the milk wins…

~Mura


#14

that’s something like how it is around here in singapore, where everyone’s either a kof fiend or a scrub who’s unwilling to appreciate the finer points of marvel. I dunno, it’s in the mindset, if they don’t wanna realize that all their scrubdom counts for balls against real players, you can’t expect them to want to better themselves.

So you get caught between handing them an ass wiping with advanced techniques to show how the characters in marvel are pushed to their max and risk them being sore losers such as in Coos Coos case. Or you try to patiently teach them that Spidey/Wolvie/Hayato ain’t getting you anywhere, but they don’t listen. You think people with this kinda mindset will care about their wolvie taking more damage than a magneto ( no offence btw higher jin, great post btw) ? I don’t think so.

Learning marvel is all bout the mindset, and if people can’t grasp that concept in itself, you’re better off OCV’ing Abyss.


#15

just soooooooooooo you guys know the tiers 1st is storm, 2nd is mag, 3rd sentinel, and 4th cable. ain’t no way senti is better than mag. and i will debate this.


#16

gouki sorry but sentinel is better than mag.

try this on a mag player

spitxxflyxxunfly. laserxxfly move back, hpxxunfly, assist, repeat

sj. or j. hp will beat all of mag’s normals.

flying around and sent’s normals just keep mag out.

but if mag hits its over, and trust me, getting a hit on sentinel is a lot harder than BH. make sure the sentinel is good, meaning the player will take the effort to hk while flying, unflyxxfly quickly hk again and stuff like that.


#17

TC: you’re scrutiny from gamefaqs, aren’t you?

the truth


#18

What the FUCK?!

Frying pan loses to ALL of Mags’ normals. It’s just that most Magneto players hit the buttons too quickly and the hit time elapses.

At the very least, frying pan very definitely loses to Magneto’s launcher. You should be able to grasp that, shouldn’t you?


#19

dasrik i wouldnt say it loses to all of mag’s normals, maybe trade or something.

but i meant if u pan him like right at the start of the jump or sj, then cancel it with fly when the hitframe is nearly done.

oh and this is done from a little distance, maybe mag will win up close but if sentinel is on the bottom and mag is a little above sentinel’s pan should beat it.


#20

I think this is a good time to settle the score on what Sentinel’s frying pan really is, which is a sweeping normal attack with an odd arc. It’s actually one of the least reliable normals in priority battles. Basically, there are a few frames where the frying pan hits a little diagonally above Sentinel, then a few frames where it hits for the full horizontal extension. It gets beat by a LOT of stuff, like Blackheart airdashing forward and mashing on jab.

The problem is that you have to earn the distance where Magneto’s normals beat Sentinel’s everything. If you’re a “Sentinel sprite” distance away, then you shouldn’t be trying to attack him at all, just close distance.