Momma Said Knock You Out! The Balrog/Boxer Super Strategy and Match Ups Thread

Propose to me how we could possibly make a scrub version of a match-up strategy? Half of the time we just list what you can do to beat/punish their moves and what they can do to beat/punish your moves, and give you a general idea of what you should be aiming for. Information like that is pretty standard and stays true whether the players are scrubs or pros, it’s up to you to apply it in an actual match.

Added to front page

How do you guys get in on dhalsim??

You cant jump, dash punch, tap. Walk forward is pretty difficult without eating a couple fierce punches. If you turtle, he can throw a fireball and do a 50/50 guessing game with teleport.

Once you do get in, his throw range seems to be better than rogs it seems ( correct me if I’m wrong) and its very hard to get damage in on someone who can tech really really well. That and if sim gets super you can’t jump or dash punch or else you eat it.

This guy I play is pretty damn good. It was an even match in vanilla sf4 but now I find it pretty damn hard.

If you felt the match-up was even in vanilla then what exactly changed in super to make you feel that sim suddenly has an advantage. Despite the various buffs/nerfs to each character, the flow of the match-up is still exactly the same. Doing a simple pattern of walk/block with the occasional well timed jump will always be the best way to get past fireball zoning patterns, it takes quite a bit of practice to understand how to use it.

More damage and better throw range. The throw range makes it very very hard to punish him trying to tech cuz I would get thrown if I do c.lp, walk back c.lp to bait tech throw. He doesnt do option select tech so I cant really use standing hk to beat that.

Your ways to get in on Dhalsim I believe are:

  1. Walk forward and block.

One of the most effective ways to get in on him really. Just keep blocking the normals he throws at you and you eventually be able to push him back slowly. This way means you’ll take next to no damage getting in, but also will most likely take the longest.

  1. Jump forward.

Another effective way for any character to get in on Dhalsim. The point is though, don’t make it obvious you’re gonna jump in. This is where your patience comes in. Don’t just jump in willy nilly trying to get close. You will get AA’d by good Sim players. Be patient, walk forward and block and get a feeling for when he wants to fireball you in his keep away patterns. When you think he’s gonna throw a fireball, that’s when you should be jumping. During this walk forward block period, you can also mix in a bit of walking backward. i.e. block one of his normals and then walk back a few steps. Why? See if he fireballs. Take notice that if he does takes this walk backward bait and fireballs, dash ultra or super if you have it.

  1. Headbutt through fireballs.

A stupid way of getting in against Sim. Don’t even try it.

  1. TAP.

I’m not talking about TAP through fireballs. TAP through normals. You can do your usual walk forward block business. But charge TAP during your blockstun and then release as he pushes his next button. His normal will whiff and you get either a hit TAP (huzzah!) or a blocked TAP. Still huzzah, since you’re right next to him and you can start your pressure from there. There is an actual secret third option… he throws you right out of TAP because you’ve been abusing this trick.

  1. FADC

He throws out a limb, you FADC forwards and block. Or you can gamble even more and FADC jump. A few things to consider with FADC’ing limbs. If it’s a jab or short limb, you’ll get smacked for even more damage. FADC a fierce or roundhouse limb is what you want to be doing. At the right distance you should be able to jump in and force Sim to block. At the wrong distance you will get AA’d. If you FADC a strong or forward limb, then it’s best you just FADC forward and block since he can throw out another poke and stuff you jump in on the way up most likely. Another sneaky trick you can do? Hold all three punches and forward, or hold all three kicks and strong. If you FADC a jab or short limb, you’ll be hit out of your forward dash regardless. With any other strength limb however, FADC forward and only release the three buttons when you see their next poke and you’ll be right next to them just like in #4!

  1. EX punches.

These can be effective as well. You can tag Sim for EX RU > jab > HB > Ultra if you have it from about 3/4ish screen away I think. At the very least 1/2 screen. Not a good idea to just throw out randomly. They can either throw quite easily on reaction and make you do all the hard work of getting in again. Or they can EX Flame to break the armour. On reaction too. Or super. This is if you do them RANDOMLY. Again, you have to observe their keep away pattern and try to do one at the right distance against a heavy poke. I always use rush upper because it can combo. Although EX Smash works well too because of the knockback as well as knockdown. The others… not so useful…

You’ve got six different ways to get in on Sim… I didn’t mention just dashing in actually… that is also something to be used sparingly if you notice they’ve stopped pressing buttons. Each has their own level of risk/reward and none should be abused except for #1. It’s up to you as the player to know which is best for what kind of Sim you’re playing.

As far as I know throw ranges are the same and Sim doesn’t have any kind of kara throw. So in other words your problem is that Sim now has more damage. Did he get buffed so much that the match sings from 6/4 in Rog’s favor in vanilla to 4/6 in Sim’s favor in super? I mean seriously, the match is played exactly the same way with the same flow. If you knew how to deal with him in vanilla then nothing significant has changed to alter your strategy.

Don’t know if it has been posted already but against DeeJay the last part of the Ultra Juggle will wiff after a headbutt if done KPKKK not in the corner. However it will hit if done with PPKKK :wink:

speaking of which, anyone know if there’s an updated overhead follow-up chart for the new characters?

Oh, and I did some random testing and it seems as if the cr.lk whiffs when doing a rush upper loop against juri, I think for sure you’d have to do cr.lp to st.lp to have a workable rush upper combo.

c.lp to c.mp. Harder link, but means you can headbutt.

I thought that this didn’t work on certain crouching opponents. Like most crouching opponents.

the front page doesn’t give much advice on the vega matchup. i’m getting owned left and right by vega players. annoyingly the matchups i struggle with the most now are chun, guile, vega, and ultra2 abel players.
last night was one vega after another on psn, and a bunch of guiles sprinkled inbetween. i’m pretty comfortable now actually with the guile matchup because someone posted a helpful link to some tips on how to beat guile’s tools but vega there’s only 2 lines on the front page. i’m pretty sure the reason i’m losing to vegas is lack of practice and not the fact that the character just has options over all of balrog’s offense.

any pointers would be much appreciated.

Vega’s got no answer for rush down/pressure. For a vega to win consistently, they have to control the match. With balrog your focus is to scare him to flip in range for any of your knock down normals.

PPP (double) flip > walk throw
KKK (single) flip > sweep

Jump back FP beats super.
You can backdash or TAP through his Ultra 1.

Vega’s definitely better, but knock him down once and keep him guessing. Jumping HK Will stuff/trade with his flip kick, beware of tick throws and his non-comboable overhead.

Pressure Vega into a corner, make him lose his mask and tick throw him to death. It’s a hard match if you’re trying to hit vega full screen, or he’s controlling the match, but if you’re in his face he’s got no moves with enough invincibility frame to get out of a bind except flip and that’s easy to punish.

Vega’s equalizer in the Balrog matchup is the Izuna Drop, top vegas will spam this full screen to kill your backcharge and grab you.
Options:
[LIST=1]
[]TAP will get you away, but you can be grabbed during TAP
[
]cr.FP will hit him, but only if he falls on it, it makes it easier to grab you since you’re not moving.
[*]Jump back FP works as long as he doesn’t travel behind you on your way up, so no pre-emptive jump back fierce, only if he comes to you. It’s much easier if you’re already in a corner.
[/LIST]
This is only an issue if you don’t control the match, a blocked flying barcelona is a guaranteed TAP/ultra/super/<insert move here> Vega can’t take a hit, so knock the mask off and sit on it.

Late tap or headbutt beats vegas flying grab/slash thing.

s.MP > wall dives

Yeah seriously stop trying to use shenanigans to get around Vega’s wall dives, they can get you caught half the time.

Alright as a seasoned Balrog player I normally do very well but I been lately running into these gen’s that I have no idea on what to do. I need to know how to punish him on those wall jumps it seems that they recover so fast that not even lp dash straight can’t punish them. I tried rush upper, cr. hp and headbutt, but they either trade (usually in gen’s favor) or whiff . I also tried focus attacks, but those damn wall jumps just armor break and then gen nail’s a combo. I know rog has the better pokes but once the pokes are over he just crosses over or does the wall jumps shanaginns again.

Doesn’t cr.lp xx str8 still work? It used to in vanilla, I’m not sure about now though. But I’m pretty sure I was doing it against one of the few Gens I’ve faced in S4. If you have Super you can cancel the Str8 to Super to really teach them a lesson.

for the Gen match-up, the walldives are completely safe at the right distances, but at the wrong distances are completely punishable with any jab combo, especially if too deep, probably usually best to counter-poke with a cr.mp or cr.lp and start some long and drawn out combo to stun him. Gen is beast on wake-up, both on yours and his, probably best to do nothing on wake-up because lk gekiro (Waterfall kick) has some crazy active frames and will break armor on reversal, ex gekiro will get you stuck too.

Don’t get into any air-to-air battles either, his crane jumping HP will stuff everything you’ve got in the air. Spacing is important, more in this match than any other match because of his two different jump arcs.

We’re talking about an EX Upper Loop though, in which case your opponents must be standing for the Upper to hit anyway.

Outplaying Abels, then he gets Ultra 2 and has a free mind game against me that turns the tide of the entire match, or kills me.

I wouldn’t despise the thing so much if it didn’t travel across 3/4s of the screen so fast AND have armor… AND he can time it AND cancel it.

Does anybody have any reliable escapes or counters for this? I can’t do shit on reaction because he can feint.

I remember saying Balrog should have a version of the Gigaton Punch that operates like Dash Straight Low/Dash Swing Blow. I regret ever THINKING that. LOL