i can tell you have no abels. cuz ex TT is not throw immune. normal TT is throw immune. and it’s also +1 on blocked stepkick not +3. hehe so yeah.
I don’t have issues what to do beforehand. I just need to get a grip on what people do after a blocked stepkick. Options are usually backdash/lp headbutt/jump away/tech/etc. Just curious if i’m missing anything.
oh lol, pretty sure you didn’t miss anything.
Since he’s +1 on block (+4 on hit), a cr.jab should beat most of his options except EX-TT. It’d take some time in the lab, but if regular TT is like Honda’s Oicho then you can definitely cr.jab it on its 5 frame start-up. It’s range dependent, but mixing up between cr.lp and regular throw is probably the offensive answer you’re looking for.
Non offensive answers are neutral jump, and backdash, but they have their advantages and disadvantages since they’re so slow and telegraph. It’s all theory though, I havn’t put much time in for the abel matchup.
how does his s.HP work then. it’s a 4 frame startup so at +1 he would hit when my c.LP hits. Does he get CH? or what? do we trade?
On blocked step kick:
-don’t jump or light headbutt because abel can just cr. short ~ st. fierce into more bullshit or just roll and punish your headbutt with another step kick. proper way to counter abel’s cr. short after step kick is balrog’s cr. jab.
-all dash punches can be thrown
-ex headbutt will beat anything but block and roll which leads to more step kicks
-backdash has a better chance of creating space because abel has to read your move and risk doing a backdash punish which can all be punished by cr. jab
-be aware that cr. jab will either not come out or get CH if abel does st. fierce after step kick.
Best options(fixed! ty foxisquick): cr. jab and backdash.
it really sucks for balrog. Try to stay out of step kick range and get a UKD which will get you most of your damage. Don’t be greedy or you’ll lose your breath, get CH stepkicked (weeeee!!!), EX COD(safe, more pressure), EX TT, and other forms of bullshit. Be aware of what his options are and make sure you throw roll attempts.
yeah ok i figured jab wouldn’t work he can just CH it. and it’s only a bad idea if he does s.HP. so it’s for sure an option. If you mix in backdash with c.LP sounds like he would have to guess as well. c.LP beats all his anti backdash options and backdash escapes almots everything.
Frame perfect, cr.lp when he does st.hp will probably trade rather than allow him to get a CH since they go into active frames at the same time. I could be wrong, but a trade resets the situation an doesn’t put you in any weird juggle state or anything. So versus meterless abel a cr.lp after step kick is probably the best offensive option. It will not trade in your favor (you lose more life), but will get you out of the mixup situation.
i am completely fine as long as it trades. so k cool thanks ;o. and you sould get more training vs abel. he is ruff.
cool, i never thought of it beating his backdash punishes!
I tried to test this out yesterday actually and I either got no cr. jab to come out at all and just stayed blocking or I got CH. Maybe i’m not frame perfect though, IDK. Also, if Abel goes for a grab, will boxer get thrown because abel is +1?
edit: i’m having a friend test this out right nowww
ya, i’ll get some training in, that f+mk, st.hp link is a bitch so once i finally get it recorded i’ll see first hand if my theory works as I think it should. Oh and FYI, CH f+mk is very scary, abel can cr.hp you for crazy mix-up shenanigans.
I believe so, i’ve normal thrown people in blatant startup of both specials and normals, so i’m sure its entirely possible IF he’s in range.
(for lurkers, go into training mode and test out anything you read, and ask questions, especially if you can’t seem to get something to work since what’s written can be wrong, sometimes very wrong).
after blocked step kick*revisited:
cr. jab will beat anti-backdash options
cr. jab will STUFF cr. short and every other normal except st. fierce. My friend tried both mashing jab and timing jab and Rog would either block, or get CH.
cr. jab will beat regular TT
cr. jab will lose to regular throw
Generally its like foxisquick said, your best options when there is no meter involved are cr. jab and backdash.
When abel has meter, he can EX TT cr. jab attempts, and things get a little scarier for Rog.
shoutouts to saigo for testing all of this
does that include a wheel kick?
wheel kick is like a large startup 7 frames or more? I don’t know if LK can hit backdashing, if it can then -5. So you should be able to jab, then block it still. then punish it.
oh also want to add that lp headbutt is good. Beats s.HP, throw, TT. Doesn’t beat c.XX because the headbutt doesn’t have lower body immunity and he’s ducking. I’m guessing here from experience i haven’t actually proven this in training btw. But i THINK ex headbutt will work on all his option except neutral jump/blocking. while LP headbutt beats neutral jump. if someone is good with training room we can get that proven out.
Try 20 frames of startup for wheel kick. I’m sure either st.lp or cr.hp for sure will beat it clean. But to punish wheel kick on reaction, I don’t know, you’ve gotta do cr.lp and then block high or do cr.hp, so quite difficult IMO, you’ve got 20 frames to make the magic happen, but that’s a blink of an eye that long.
headbutt is a decent option since it seems that none of his normals recover fast enough to block/punish that wouldn’t stuff it to begin with. But if he blocks you’re in a world of hurt since he has all the time in the world to cr.hp, and that’s exactly what you don’t want. I’d save headbutt until the point where a headbutt to ultra combo would end the final match.
FYI, st.hp is even on block, so some abels may be happy to spam f+mk, st.hp but it’s not a true block string. dont’ think he has any true block strings except normal cancels in the CoD and chaining normals (e.g. cr.lp and cr.lk)
wait what. i’m confused now. stepkick is +1 and all his moves except cs.HP are 5 frames or slower. cs being 4 frames so it’s a 3 frame startup counterhitting all your 3 frame stuff. right?
so that would make none of his stuff a true blockstring? confused. I don’t think even c.LP s.HP is a blockstring since c.LP gives hime +3 on block. so unless he’s chaining more LP. I can’t think of any true blockstrings that he really has besides chains and cancels (which would then be unsafe)
edit: oh and 20 frame startup lol. sounds like you have plenty of time.
I don’t think you really have to react if u do cr. jab xx cr.jab+fierce or just cr. jab xx st. jab. I’ll try it out next time i play.
oh and again light headbutt is really easily countered with low short and if abel rolls, you’re fucked.
holy shit, while very possible, I got cr.lp to trade once lmao. How are you guys timing your cr.lp after the blocked step kick?
I dunno i just hit it haha.
Really late response, but option select her block string c.hp. In her block strings if she goes for another instant cannon strike, c.hp will stuff it and you tech throws. If they notice you doing this though, she can delay block strings into cannon spike so mix it up