Momma Said Knock You Out! The Balrog/Boxer Super Strategy and Match Ups Thread

ABEL STRATEGY

If Abel does U2 while you are jumping in, the ultra freeze will give you enough time to do EX headbutt (or ULTRA) by the time you land, causing the ultra to whiff or be punished in full. Don’t ever jump in, without charging, while Abel has U2.

Do not attempt to meaty or throw Abel if he has U2. It’s simply too risky, and no matter how meaty you do anything, you WILL be grabbed for half life bar. Attempt to bait the ultra, do not give him free damage. Despite how you fight other characters, you are **not **at advantage if you knock Abel down, while he has U2. It’s too dangerous. You can do a meaty TAP, overhead, or low swing blow on Abel (as it will break his armor) if he doesn’t have EX tornado available, but **only **then.

S.jab>c. RH is the most effective tool against Abel. It puts you at optimal spacing to eliminate any viable options Abel has, unless he gets lucky or random. It beats everything he has safely (normals and specials), excluding psychic EX tornado throws.

You are at advantage if you stay just outside of Abel’s step kick range, forcing him to guess as to how to get beyond your many defensive options. It’s impossible to get past Rog’s defensive options unless you don’t react quickly enough to a wheel kick, roll, or jump in.

Do not ever randomly throw out a heavy attack versus Abel unless it’s following a s.jab. Rog can easily out-footsie Abel with s.jab and counter-poke his step kick with s.RH. However, Abel can easily focus dash through all your heavy attacks for big damage. **Only **use a heavy attack upon a verified counter-poke, use them *very *sparingly, or during s.jab block strings. In addition, the damage you gain from playing footsie is, at maximum, a (CH) s.RH. If Abel counter-pokes you with step kick, expect to eat upwards of 35% dmg guaranteed. The risk versus reward is *strongly *in Abel’s favor, despite Rog’s footsie advantage.

Because of the extreme risk you take playing footsie with Abel, make sure EVERY Wheel Kick and Marseilles Roll is punished. Pay very close attention to your opponent’s willingness to roll out of danger and throw him immediately. The shenanigans after roll are too dangerous. Naturally, wheel kick should be punished with EX headbutt and if you don’t have bar: s.jab or s.FP. Apart from the small damage you gain from footsie, this is your best bet as to winning a match. No special Abel has should be allowed on screen unpunished (apart from tornado, which can only be punished if you predict his movements). Once you prevent Abel from using his otherwise effective random specials, you will have the match secured, as Abel has no legitimate options afterward.

Be very wary (especially on wake-up) that Abel’s cross-up MK will force you to manually perform an auto-correct EX dash punch or block, otherwise you ***WILL ABSOLUTELY ***go the wrong direction and be punished easily. Do not ever attempt to headbutt if you are in the corner as it will, for some reason, go the “correct” direction, denying you an escape and putting you right on top of Abel for big punishment.

Be cautious of opponents who can tornado throw dash punches on reaction. It’s very easy on any dash punch that isn’t a jab straight.

Abel is at slight disadvantage after a blocked step kick. None of his moves are as fast as your crouching jab (despite him being at neutral frames), excluding EX tornado throw. Time your c.jab to beat or trade with his pressure. If you trade may be able to combo into a s.RH or c.RH.

Abel is -3 after one hit of a block Change of Direction and worse if he starts up the second hit. Time c.jab afterward for a clean punish or for reverse pressure (be cautious of his EX meter).

Great stuff but this item here seems wrong. This has been discussed alot, and it seems Rogs best defense is to stay away from step kicks altogether or backdash. cr.lp gets CH way to often

It might make sense to mention that if you have super and an op is focus absorbing your cr.hk you do have the option of canceling the cr.hk into super. This is also an option for abel’s who counter your super cancellable lows (by absorbing and not a whiff punish) with U2.

the only thing that is gonna CH it is s.HP which doesn’t beat backdash, dash punch, and headbutt. so c.LP is for sure an option.

I need more advice on fighting Vegas. i cant seem to beat my friend. unless those 2 tidbits are enough to win

im trying to get my reflexes better. i can headbutt thru fireballs on reaction but doing dash ultra/super on reaction like pr rog does here in the beginning just amazes me - [media=youtube]zJcSsr3FcFI&feature=related[/media] at :38

when i go for the dash ultra, its when someone if throwing fireballs nonstop which is easy
i also do a lot of dashes and buffer the ultra motion and if i see a fireball i hit punches

i just dont get how this guy senses the fireball and just dashed ultra like he knew ryu was gonna do it that exact moment

IMO that dash ultra had more to do with pattern recognition. and a guess, like what you said earlier, he figured that a fireball was probably coming and that he should dash forward, he saw the fireball, then tapped the 3P.

@D.Ringo, we touched on that about 10 pages back, search for izuna drop and that might get you what you need. IF that doesn’t get you where you need to be in the matchup, just post what you’re having trouble with.

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Can someone point out the trick at 0:20? Is this a 1-frame link like jab into ultra? Any merit in a real fight, or is this a show move only?

Its just a jump back HP into ultra. Nothing tricky except he whiffs a HB whe the opponent is Down to buffer his back charge and stay in range for the HP to connect midscreen. Try it with rog in the corner to see the timing. It’s about a lot of frames link. :lol: AKA easy

anyone ever try to air-to-air giefs neutral jump headbutt?..is it possible? Also I was playing a gief, and he kept tick through with cr.mk on whiff and cr.lk on block/hit and I wasn’t sure how to counter it. I’d jump but i’d still get thrown.

Afterwards I thought to myself that he might be grabbing me out of the startup frames of the jumps, but I wasn’t sure. Because if that was the case, then back-dash would be Balrog’s ONLY option out of that situation (right?). Wanted to know if anyone ran into this issue before or has experience with giefs tick spds, esp since that’s a scary 50/50 if Gief does a delayed ex greenhand to beat the backdash.

I’m having problems in the Abel matchup. I keep getting my ass handed over to me. Any usefull advice? I’ve tried to play this match with slower pace and trying to guess right but I keep getting caught inevitably in bullshit ex change of directions, command grabs, etc.

Thought this might give ppl some info against Blanka’s U1. Plus DASH UNDER ULTRA possible against U1. some practical, others just cuz i was curious of what was possible or worked.

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effing wowzers.

wheres the thanks button?

nah, no jump frames are throw able. You just reacting too slow. But also watch out cr. lk even with the nerfed frame is still good at keeping you planted so if you keep holding up, you’ll get hit confirmed easy.

no need man ha ha … WE PLAY BALROG… well i assume

[…] for shitty vegas just get them to stop wall dive shenanigans outside of combos.

late HB works best
Late TAP just to get out the way and puedo taunt him. You can hit him too if he’s wall dive baiting
cr.hp good if he’s diving to your front
j.back HP is good unless he’s good at the izuna drop timing (throw)

I don’t use FA simply because i can be thrown.

Once you stop his random shit now you can play footsies. Look out for HK ticks, long sweeps and the mega annoying ex high claw, nearly impossible to block on reaction mid screen.

What can Rog do against Rufus U2? Both on the ground, or Rog is safe jumping, any way he can avoid the chip?

rhino!!! I think any invincible move after his 13 frame startup, so probably Ultra 1/Ultra 2, headbutt will probably lose because of it’s horizontal range. But point blank (e.g. you’re both at neutral and you can’t avoid it by jumping), i’m pretty sure everything loses, and if he gets close enough to put you in block stun before you can react, rog has to eat the chip damage.

edit: Theory fighter works out, it’s just got more invincibility then all of balrogs specials/ultra/supers. So you have to delay your reversal for a bit and then attack. IF Rufus isn’t point blank, it’s pretty simple to do EX.HB, Ultra, or Super. Headbutt, Ultra and Super lose to his ultra 2 with reversal timing, activating with punches and not holding punches helps, you really need that 10 frame startup.

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Awesome vid, i’m sure ropedrink really enjoyed that lol. Did you discover any options to get out of Blanka’s cross-up Ultra?

thanx man… i was thinking about that… im gonna go in the lab… maybe auto correct ex HB? auto correct ultra? armor cancel ultra? lol ill try it and come back with some results.

EDIT: i found only one thing that works. EVERYTHING else loses.

-ex HB’s invinsibility causes rog to get hit late and since it’s blanka, HB wiff’s cuz of the U1 animation.
-HB gets owned
-turnpunch gets owned
-ex dash punches/regular versions get owned
-super’s invinsibility frames causes him to go through blanka but when he’s out of those frames, he ends up right in front of blanka and gets hit. so it gets owned as well

the ONLY thing that worked 100% was an auto correct ultra