MP-> C.HP Combo, Backthrow Ultra . Why is this so hard?

gouken

#1

Hey guys, been lurking for a bit trying to brush up on my Gouken. I feel like I’m getting better, but everyday it takes me a good hour of warm up to consistently hit the timing on Backthrow to Ultra, and MP -> C. HP -> Fireball etc.

So 2 Questions:

[LIST=1]
[]After back throw, is there any visual cue I can use to gauge the exact moment to launch Ultra 1? I try to watch the shadow on the ground sometimes, or imagine where the opponent is above the screen. Is there any timing trick you use?
[
]Is there any visual cue I can look for to properly link the MP to C. HP combo? It always seems to get blocked and I find the link to be really finicky. It seems like you have to wait a second to properly hit (too early gets blocked).
[/LIST]

If I could clean these simple combos, I’d be in much better shape!


#2

U1 is just a timing thing you need in your head, You can look at the shadow on the floor but meh. Try doing it with your eyes closed (serious). Do the whole thing with your eyes closed, backthrow to Ultra. Keep doing it until you have it consistently.

As for the mp xx c.hp, plink the c.hp if it is giving you trouble. Do cl.st.mp, then do c.hp~c.mp and hold the button down, then do the srk motion and release the buttons.


#3

i activate when gouken resets his stance after back throw. but i think one second is good enough.


#4

Thanks guys. Still a little fuzzy on the timing between CL. ST. Mp and C. HP. Even when I hold the buttons down as Reipin suggested, I still miss with the C. HP almost every other time.

I can hit a majority of Gouken’s more complex combos but have never been able to get this MP to C. HP thing down. Its infuriating!

When you time the hits, is there a slight pause between MP and C. HP or do you just mash it?


#5

This goes for C.MP -> C. HK sweep. I find I miss the 2 hit combo fairly often. Do I just suck or is there a trick to it?


#6

go into training, set the ex bar to infinite, put them in the corner, and just do cs.mp > cr.hp x lp.fireball fadc cs.mp > cr.hp x lp.fireball fadc … over and over and over until it’s burned into your fingers.

The difference between a person who wins sometimes and a person who wins consistently is that the former will practice until he gets it while the latter will practice until he can’t not get it.


#7

Do you plink?


#8

I’ve been trying… but apparently not doing it correctly. Didn’t realize you hit C.HP before MP. Spending some time in training now - getting it down.


#9

Personally, I’d recommend practicing this combo:

CL.MP > LP Hadouken > Sweep

The reason I recommend this is hadouken > sweep is 1 frame more difficult than CL.MP > Sweep. Once you get used to performing hadouken > sweep, doing cl.mp to sweep will make you feel like you have all day to do it.


#10

cl.mp xx hado -> sweep doesn’t work off a crossup for a lot of characters.

These links aren’t really related and learning the timing on one isn’t really related to the other.

You might as well go tell him to practice Ryu links into sweep because those are 1 frames too so that would make the Gouken link easier. Makes about as much sense to me.


#11

And he shouldn’t learn it because it doesn’t work in -all- situations? What?

Both involve linking to Gouken’s sweep. One is two frames, the other is one frame. Yeah, totally unrelated.

How does “practice a similar link with the same character” somehow equate to “practice with a completely different character”?

Personally, I find getting the feel for (not necessarily mastering) a one frame link makes other similar two-frame links much easier to perform.


#12

You shouldn’t focus on 1 frames until you have a BnB down. Because if you don’t have a BnB down, you can’t play the game to its fullest potential. God forbid you’re playing Vega or Gief where their BnB is all derpy 1 frame jabs/shorts. If someone is having trouble with cl.mp -> cr.hk, they should work on that combo and get it consistently before they even think about 1 frames.

[LIST]
[]cl.mp xx lp hado can be uppercutted in between hits on block
[
]cl.mp xx lp hado -> sweep is character specific
[]On the characters it works on, it only works on a few of them if they’re crouching
[
]You can’t do walk forwards cl.mp xx hado because of shortcuts giving you cl.mp xx palm (not the worst thing, but still not what you’re going for)
[]Gouken can set up a crossup that can’t be reversal uppercutted off every sweep he lands. Combos not working off crossups is a big deal for him.
[
]Going from a normal, to a special, to a normal means that your timing can be changed based on the timing you actually get the hado as compared to when you input it (aka the buffer window can screw up your timing). The timing in between button presses for cl.mp -> cr.hk is always 100% consistent unless you plink cl.mp for some reason.
[]Learning cl.mp -> cr.hk segways into cl.mp -> cr.hp xx EX Palm, Gouken’s most important combo. The frames are identical between cr.hp and cr.hk and in 2012 this should work basically always unless the cr.hp is out of range. In which case cl.mp -> sweep would work, but not cl.mp xx lp hado -> sweep.
[
]Gouken’s offense is stronger off a raw cl.mp on block than it is off a cl.mp xx lp hado. He has to go to a zoning game on block off a hado. The best frame trap he has off blocked hado is walk forwards s.hk, which is very slow and focus bait. Off cl.mp he has kara throw (hk is kara throw), sweep frame trap, cr.mp/cr.hp xx demon flip, cr.hp xx fireball hit-confirm fadc sweep, far s.hp/s.mp CH combo to sweep, the opportunity for a crossup, and frame trap kongo shenanigans. Most of this disappears off cl.mp xx lp hado on block

Linking off a hado is a very useful skill for Gouken but it’s situational. People need consistent BnBs to start with.

And personally I know people who hate practicing combos and never get better because people always tell them “you either can do 1 frames consistently or you are free” so they don’t even try. When if they learned how to play with some simple, consistent combos, they could incrementally learn the value of the difficult stuff and fit it in where they find it comfortable for their gameplay style.
[/LIST]


#13

Just thought i’d add, there is a visual cue for the Backthrow ~> Ultra. You just wait till you see Gouken complete his turn around animation and press your PPP just as he finishes. You should nail it every time. I just buffer in the dbl.QCF motion and wait till i see him turn, then press PPP. Because of the lenient input system you can delay the PPP till just the right moment, that way you’re not pressing it all at once and risking going too late. After you do it a few times the timing will just stick in your mind and hands like everyone is saying. Hope that helps.


#14

Thanks guys. Put in the time on both of these and while I can’t plink correctly (using a pad on the PC), I’m getting to timing down. Its a bit quicker than I thought.


#15

Visual Cue: Look at your opponents shadow after the backthrow.As they reaach the apex of the backthrow you will see the point where they flip and become parrallel to the ground all 4 limbs can be seen, then you can see the shadow falling , it is before you see the shadow falling w/arms moving close together that yuo want to have completed the command for u1.


#16

I use the same one, lol.

But I only use shin-sho against abel now, and I don’t think I even need to.


#17

I might use it vs Dhalsim since nofadc Ultra 1 is so easy on him combined with OS EX palm.

Can see using it vs Guy as well since it is such a pain to hit him with a fireball regardless. The fact I have to even think about this is good.


#18

But then again againt dhal u might as well use denjin for the ability to stop from fbs, since his recovers very slow, and since he has low stun and denjin will connect in more places(such as FA his limbs into denjin)

Against guy, again his stun sucks, and one the fact you can punish


#19

Found this to be the most reliable method.

So maybe this a general question about the CS. MP -> C. HP timing, and maybe this is obvious. But essentially, do you want to input the C. HP before the MP touches the opponent? I found that on some occasions I can just time the HP after the MP hits, and other times I just have to enter it before the hit takes place.


#20

id say look for the hit "splash " or the impact animation as you hit. press as soon as you see that or the health bar flash yello on hit