[MTUP] Balrog

fei-long

#1

Specific thread for the Balrog match-up.
Match-up difficulty FeiLong 4 - 6 Balrog


#2

Meaty c.MK is delicious.

EDIT: I’ve been trying this out more, it’s a good thing to know, but you gotta use it carefully cause it loses to EX punches and cause Fei can’t cancel into another move. Only really do if boxer doesnt have EX or your predicting a Headbutt. Getting hit by an ultra is not fun either.

How should fei approach a holed up boxer? throws are almost useless cause of boxer’s jabs.


#3

Pasted from the “tiers” thread:

I’m no expert in the Balrog matchup, but I’ve found that it gets a million times easier if you can get him in the corner and keep him there. He can’t walk backwards so Fei’s pokes won’t miss, and will outreach most of his options. Jab is tricky because it’s so fast and gives so much advantage, but at least you can stay outside of jab range and try to chip away with the occasional overhead, or tenshin attempt. Balrog’s sweep is another problem, but c.hp and c.mk should outreach it. If you decide to start focusing, try to be aware of how long he’s been charging so that you don’t eat an armor break. C.mk, c.mp and c.hp stop his dashes, but be careful of super armor and TAP’s startup invincibility. I also think that most of his dashes are unsafe on block from the range you’ll be fighting at, so if you block one, c.lp/s. lp xx rekka is your buddy.

If he jumps, flame kick or standing roundhouse depending on the timing and range. Watch for headbutts and punish hard on block or whiff. Try to punish whiffs with a single jab rekka from safe range, but don’t get too greedy or you might eat a headbutt. Being able to hit confirm into the next two will really help here.

If you land a command grab, I recommend doing cl.hp xx hp rekka as a follow-up because it will get you pretty close to the opposite corner so you don’t sacrifice too much positional advantage. It won’t do as much damage as say, cl.hp xx flame kick, but it still does a respectable amount, and more importantly it doesn’t leave you trying to fight Boxer at mid-screen.

Again this is all my experience and I don’t have hard numbers on it (or enough experience to say that it’s airtight), so take it with a grain of salt and critique as needed.


#4

cross ups to command grab all day on this guy!, keep your mix ups, and u can FA his punches making him crumble, if he ex’s u can throw. only thing to watch out for is his headbutt. other than that, Getting and working up the mix ups is the best way to beat balrog in my opinion


#5

idk if this has been mentioned in other threads, but last night i was testing some stuff vs boxers ex rush punches and noticed that if i let it get deep enough and did mk flame kick, it hits 2x and beats the punch clean and it does more damage than the fk flam kick. first hit does 140 damage and the second does 90, if you are able to hit him from not as deep the first hit does 140 and the second does like 113 or something. idk why that is, but its what i was getting last night. This was vs all of his ex rush punches btw. the only one that was tricky was the one that trips you. if you didnt let him get deep enough the punch would win.


#6

MK Shien hitting 2x? Nice. Gotta check it out

Like you said tho, this is only pretty much useful vs EX Dash Overhead since EX Straight/Upper/Low have little to no delay when that close to Fei. I might just opt to back throw though as it will give me enough time block to avoid the early hits of the others and still be able to react with the throw for the late hit of the overhead.

On another note, I’ve been thinking of using RH CW more vs EX dashes outside of nj, block, focus, and back throw. I wish ultra was armor breaking :sad:


#7

also, you ever notice how if you are in deep and you do MK Shien that it hits 2x when they are blocking? maybe there is something to this, but probably not


#8

Oh yeah, 2 hits on block is expected, but 2 on-hit is interesting.


#9

the way its working is that the first hit gets absorbed bu the armor and as it continues to rise it hits again. Maybe the game takes its being blocked perhaps. thats kind of where i got the idea to see if mk would hit 2x


#10

Alright it looks like this:

vs EX Dashes on reaction (note that I am doing this just outside of Rog’s sweep range)…

options:

  1. Block > Punish
  2. Neutral Jump
  3. Throw
  4. chain low/stand jab or low short into combo
  5. cancel low jab or stand jab into Shien
  6. MK/HK/EX Shien
  7. Tenshin/EX Tenshin
  8. LK/MK/HK/EX CW
  9. low forward/strong xx super
  10. super
  11. ultra

my recommendation and why:

HK CW is the answer to all of his EX dashes and it still allows you the link afterwards to go into all of the above. EX CW really isn’t necessary since you want to capitalize on the length of invincibility of the HK version. Rog’s recovery from the punches will get him hit by any he decides to use from mid to fullscreen. Do it too early and you likely get to armor break with your 1st hit or he hits you for CH =/ Do it on reaction and you net it almost all of the time. Do it a little too late and he will be able to block if he did upper or straight.

If the Boxer likes doing EX moves point blank (like off of a blockstring), it is best to just block low and wait to react as well. If he does straight or upper and hits you out of jump, then he can juggle into ultra. On the other hand, if you block low and then high to react to the overhead, you can punish with s.jab xx fierce rekkas or simply MK Shien.


#11

Most Balrogs I fought lately don’t do ex dash punches from midscreen though, or they’ll do them safe (from distance like how we rekka, so you can’t punish). One of them just never throw dash punches except in a combo. I got dominated totally on pokes and lost big time.

And one more thing. I know it’s been discussed a lot. But why in the world does FeiLong do an awkward pause at the end of his dash?


#12

Rekka distance is typically mid-screen (2-3 bodies away)…this is not a safe EX dash for Rog if you react in time w/ RH CW. And footsies are the name of the game good sir. Bait the low RH and Rekka him; make use of f+MK; oki him as best you can on knockdown; be mindful of headbutt > ultra. But yeah, Rogs at least need to use TAP or Smash for armor break or they would be cake (that and counter focus and/or give up positioning).


#13

[quote=“KiLLaKeLLy, post:5, topic:79402”]

idk if this has been mentioned in other threads, but last night i was testing some stuff vs boxers ex rush punches and noticed that if i let it get deep enough and did mk flame kick, it hits 2x and beats the punch clean and it does more damage than the fk flam kick. first hit does 140 damage and the second does 90, if you are able to hit him from not as deep the first hit does 140 and the second does like 113 or something. idk why that is, but its what i was getting last night. This was vs all of his ex rush punches btw. the only one that was tricky was the one that trips you. if you didnt let him get deep enough the punch would win.
[/QUOTe]

I’ve seen the 2-chip hit on block but never on hit. Makes me wonder about using it to break armor on some FA or other moves…

As an aside, I’d like to see some vids on turtle boxer fights if anyone has any. Most boxers I face use dash punches from a safe distance like we use 1st hit lp rekka only it goes further and does more chip. Otherwise they will just jab out or headbutt anything I throw at em. The few boxers that do attempt to mix it up are defeatable though.


#14

I’ve been fighting a really good balrog, his execution is superb since he doesn’t miss a combo after a Jab. Of course being the noob that I am he’s beating me, but the last time we played I learned a couple of things.

If he doesn’t have Ex bar, c.mp will stop a lot of things he throws at you. Shamefully I still can’t react fast enough to do more than just another c.mp to combo of the first one.

The place to be against balrog is approximately one body of distance, where his jabs wont reach you and his dash punches are not that safe.

Crossover works good against him because his headbutt is diagonal. Also try to overhead him as most as possible to force him to stand up, makes it harder for him to c.lp or headbutt you.

Try not to miss a combo or you’ll be sorry. That’s still my main problem with this game, the thing about cancel vs link is really hard for me to get into my muscle memory. I missed a lot of opportunities where I would connect a couple of c.lk and couldn’t continue to c.lp Rekka because of my timing.

Always block low, balrog only has two things that can hit you if your blocking low, the overhead dash and jumping. Both punishable if you see them coming.

Maybe I’m not the one to give advice but just wanted to point out what I’ve seen after playing against him.


#15

I can’t pressure a balrog. His jabs are too good. Overhead on block puts me on a disadvantage. Can someone please give me tips to beat a G1 rog. Thanks


#16

SM I personally think you have to stand tall against a Balrog until he has Ultra then you better watch your Booty. I try to bait and FK or what I find handy is the ex Rekka’s I don’t bother with Tenshin to much cause Balrogs are jabby jabby all day, cr.hp for pokes which just keep you outside his range. I find if you let them control the fight you will soon be toast. Also MK CW when he starts his Turnaround punches. Also tic throws come in handy.


#17

Actually st. LP > EX Tenshin works great in this match…once you knock down Rog, cross up w/ j. LK into bnb string or do j. MK into Tenshin setup. You can also try doing a fake cross up w/ J. MP. MK and HK CW can negate his turn around punches. Remember that you can throw him out of EX punches…after blocking your CW, most Rog players will do EX punch to beat your flamekick so just throw after CW and if they do Headbutt, block and punish w/ Ultra if you have it. I really need to watch some videos of what your opponent is doing though to really help you.


#18

I think i am not using the CW properly for this match (at what range to you use MK / HK CW ?). His headbutt would beat my CW. Couldn’t do cr.lk to BnB; jabs would beat them. Overhead was a hit and miss. I would eat the block stun on his block strings and get punished for throw mix’s ups. The only time i had damage was when i landed a J.MP ex.tenshin but i wasn’t a threat to him. I had some success when i used J.LK to cr.lk to BnB. But had no horizontal pressure. Also at times my EX CW lost to his EX punches :frowning:

Hope this helps you to get a picture of what i am doing. Thanks guys


#19

Balrog is kind of a fight you have to just fight him every step of the way. Here are my quick notes on him. I’ll actually post the whole thing in the main match up thread since the game is about to end hehe. (I have a long list I drew up of every character for “basic idea” match up advice)

BTW: the score listed is my personal match up status, non official.

Balrog(4-6):
-Abuse overhead, use the abuse to bait a Headbutt and punish with a Fierce-starting combo.
-Never Rekkax2 on block, his crouching Jab punishes perfectly spaced Rekkas.
-Cross him up a lot if you get a knockdown, if he tries to headbutt off the ground, Rekka after him to punish for another knockdown.
-If he pushes you into the corner stay clam and watch for an opening such as a headbut. When you see it use 3 Fierce Rekkas to bring the fight back to center stage.
-You have to fight Balrog every second of the match, you simply can not turtle at any point in this fight.
-MK Chicken wing is effective chip on Balrog, and on if you have meter to use, FADC a medium kick flamekick right after chicken wing recovers. If he blocks you keep the pressure, if he tries to jab, you will hit him and can combo into chicken wing for more damage.


#20

thanks guys, these tips will help.