Murder she Rose: Rose Tutorial Thread

rose

#1

UPDATE: This guide was written for Super. In the video section there was a new video to show the new AE possibilities, and now there is also a USF4 change video added.
Most of the things are still relevant, although after 4+ years how we play the game may have changed a bit. Everyone’s better now :wink:

*But he that dares not grasp the thorn Should never crave the rose. *

Index

  1. Characteristics
  2. Normals
  3. Specials
  4. Spacing
  5. Attacking
  6. Defending
  7. Getting damage
  8. Tips and tricks
  9. Match-up vids

Disclaimer

Luffy is another guy. My French is not that good. I’m not a tournament player, I gave up on fighting games overall after SF Alpha 1. So this guide is not on that level, nowhere near pro-level. It does try to convey the experience I build up from maining Rose since the beginning of SF4 though. More than 15000 matches of online heroism? Hopefully you can use this as a quick reference, the kind of guide I wanted when I was trying to learn other characters like Cammy or Balrog. The information comes from my interpretation of what works for me, and what works for others in the SRK forums.

1. Characteristics

Overview
*In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be. *

In my opinion Rose is a pretty straight-forward character to start with. She has more than decent speed; her walkspeed is average like Ryu’s but her amazing dashes can only be rivaled by Chun in length. Her stamina is nothing to complain about as she is just slightly lower than the usual (950 instead of 1000) and thus up to par with Cammy, Juri and Adon, and even above Chun, Viper, Fuerte and Gen. Her special moves feel familiar to shoto-players. With a few minor twists it’s just the quart-circle type of moves: a fireball, an anti-air (Soul throw instead of SRK), a horizontal attack (drill instead of hurricane) and super-fireball. This gets you going quickly. A bit more surprising are her normals, more due to their animation than due to their characteristics. These are again the expected kind of moves: light attacks are quick 3-framers that start trouble, medium attacks have decent reach and speed and form the basics for cancels, and hard attacks are mainly situational spaced pokes. You won’t have much trouble going from the well-known shoto-style to Rose, like you woulds have when switching for example to Rufus or Viper.
But you - and that’s a good thing - will have trouble getting any good.

Strengths
*The Rose is without an explanation; She blooms, because She blooms. *

She has a toolset that can compete with the best in the zoning game (how many can force Guile to come to them?), that can play a pure spaced poking game and that can apply a strong pressure game up close. This is a possible mixture of 3 different playstyles, that allow her to adapt to and counter strategies quickly without entering dark waters. Her zoning game relies on the reflect which nullifies fireball wars, her poking game use her strong normals and dashes and her close-game benefit from the 3-framers that are linkable plus the top-tier throw range she has. In fact, Rose is often - albeit jokingly -called a grappler. She doesn’t have Cammy’s walkspeed, while she does have more range on her throws, which makes it as threatening. Oh yes, the new Ultra 2 is a god-send.
Alas, not all is sweet even called a Rose.

Weaknesses
*I never promised you a rose garden. *

She plainly doesn’t do much damage. You have to wear your opponent down. If you calculate the averages on her normals, she is bottom-tier for damage-output. If you do a meterless punish the best you can get is 200 damage. One EX stock nets you nothing more. 2 EX stocks gets you in the 260 range in Super, but in Vanilla it required a 2-frame FADC to get any good. You need some pretty tight links to score consistent damage. Her main combos are all 1-framers. Once you grade up from simply blind cancelling into confirmed linking, it’s Sparta. Things do get better in the corner though, more on that later. When things get rough, she lacks a valid reversal. The reversal for her is EX drill, and oddly enough, it isnt even invincible until the hitting frames. It’s close, but it’s not. This means it usually works, but never guaranteed, even though you guessed right. That’s a bummer and it makes you really attentive not to get mixed up in, well, mix-ups. Worse, it requires 3 EX to do a ‘safe’ reversal, that isn’t even safe. Her Ultra 1 is useless on any good opponents. It works as anti-air only on those who actually jump, and still, not on those who jump with special trajectories. Too slow, too vulnerable. All weaknesses together make a character that hates to be rushed down, knocked down and in blockstun. Luckily this isn’t Vanilla anymore, she did get options.

2. Normals

*Love thou the rose, yet leave it on its stem. *

You can control and win entire matches using her normals. That’s where the focus should be. I will list cryptically the startup, active frames, damage, advantage on hit and range. Not the recovery as they are usually safe, not the stun as it is normally in the same scale as damage output.
[list]
[] S LP (4/2/20/+1/1.06): At 4 frames startup with 2 active frames and merely 20 damage I see no use in using this. C LP hits better where this can hit.
[
] S MP (7/2/70/+3/1.23): Actually a decent poke due to it’s hitbox. The startup is a bit slow, and range no better than C MK. but the +3 advantage and cancelability can lead to further pressure, especially on counterhit.
[] S HP (11/5/100/-1/1.6): The S HK is faster and has more reach, so this one suffer usage. But it does get a whopping 5 active frames giving you a window counterhit stuff.
[
] S LK (4/2/30/+2/1.2): This can confuse the opponent for tick-throws. Thats about it.
[] S MK (6/2/30/+2/1.5): One of her main poking tools thanks to the reach and angle. She floats over low attacks (think Ryu C MK) and punishes those easily. Important move.
[
] S HK (9/2/100/+1/1.88): When S MK would fail, this one can succeed. Logically the follow-up to a blocked S MK poke. Hits a bit higher though, so you may whiff against active low attacks.
[/list]
Connoisseur’s Choice: S MK, S HK

(I list solely startup, advantage and damage for close attacks)
[list]
[] Close LP (4/+2/20): At 4 frames startup with 2 active frames and merely 20 damage I see no use in using this. C LP hits better where this can hit. That sounded familiar.
[
] Close MP (6/+4/70): Yes, this is a close attack of choice. The +4 advantage is together with C LK the best starter for links. You can link this into her pretty good C MP for damage. I like this anywhere I think I have 6 frames of room.
[] Close HP (6/+1/90): Would be a combostarter thanks to its cancelability, where it not that C HP is better in each way. Unused?
[
] Close LK (4/+2/40): I once heard a top-player say he uses it in strings (instead of C LK) to mix-up the tick-throw setups. Otherwise, C LK is better overall.
[] Close MK (7/+3/70): This wouldn’t be any big deal if it weren’t for the remark ‘1~20 cannot be thrown’ on the side of the framedata. That little note makes this move awesome. It gets her out of any grabs, whether normal throws, command throws or Ultra throws. Amazing stuff. It gets even better, the +3 advantage makes it linkable. Better than that? It has the habit of scoring counterhits, making the 1-frame link afterwards a 3-framer. Her match against Abel for example relies on this move.
[
] Close HK(7/+3/100): Flawed in design, can be used to start punishes (just cancel to drill) but you would prefer C HP as that always hits, while this whiffs randomly.
[/list]

Connoisseur’s Choice: SC MP, SC MK
[list]
[] C LP (3/3/20/+3/1.01): Together with overall damage reductions it got nerfed to 20 damage in Super, but that’s ok. It still is the goto move for a pressure string. 3 frames startup is up to par with the best, the reach is okay and the chainability to C LK very handy. Pity that it has just +3 advantage, while normally jabs go to +5 for easy links. You’ll need to chain to C LK to get into the better combos.
[
] C MP (4/3/60/+0/1.53): Spammable move, easiest setup into a basic special-cancel. You can play Rose decently by just relying on this move canceled into the right sparks or drills. Very safe, very good reach for it’s startup. When in doubt, use this.
[] C HP (5/5/100/-10/0.9): Minus 10 on hit, really? Anyway, doesn’t matter. Either this is used to cancel into a special or it is used as her main anti-air. Without this move she would have no way to keep people from jumping in. In Super they gave it +5 startup instead of +6, even better. Lots of active frames too. You can’t miss. There are jump-ins that beat this, but generally, this shuts down the air. Don’t bother with Soul Throw, since Super, Soul Throw is for combos. If you can punish: this is the hardest hitting normal.
[
] C LK (4/4/30/+4/1.18): being able to link into C MP afterwards is why this move lives. A 1-framer though, but it gets her the knockdown afterwards. Good move on wake-up, either into a tick-throw string, bait or combo. Surprisingly good on priority too a bit further away than point blank.
[] C MK (7/2/70/+3/1.64): Not the C MK it looks like. Too slow, and - when used at it’s best distance - the cancels afterwards may actually end up blocked anyway. I end up using it on wake-up a few times to catch people who thought legs were safe. In most other cases C MP is a lot faster and safer.
[
]C HK (9/2/90/-/1.9): One of the furthest sweeps in the game that are actually pretty safe on block. Still, -10, but you should be using it far out of reach of possible punishes. It’s a poke. Sweep the leg. But look out for the Crane. As a knockdown move however you will likely be using Spiral, so, well, this doesn’t get that much use. Does keep the distance though.
[/list]

Connoisseur’s Choice: C LP, C MP, C HP, C LK

For the jumping normals I’ll list the major ones:
[list]
[] J LK: The familiar quick short strike. Good for tricky tick-throws as blockstun is very short.
[
] J MK: Crossup of choice, easy to place correctly. Will lead into her cross-up tricks.
[]J HK: Hardest hitting jump-in, best use for punishes. Best reach, too. Still, J HP is almost as good and hits a lot easier.
[
] J MP: Best air-to-air (tied with J MK)
[] J HP: Main jump-in move from the front.
[
] NJ HP: Look scary but doesn’t where it looks it would. Best hard-hitter though.
[*]NJ MK: Easiest to tick with
[/list]
Connoisseur’s Choice: J HP, J MK, NJ HP


#2

3. Specials

*What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. *

  • Slide (DF+MK): Good startup at 6 frames, 8 active frames as expected for a slide-move and 60 damage. However, -3 on hit and -6 on block make this unusable on paper. Some calculus required though: hit this on the last active frame and you get 0 on block and +3 on hit. Yay! That’s why this is one of the moves that defines Rose. It launches her offense with the lowest risk possible. Just space it right and you end up there, smelling your opponents breath. With all those good normals to follow up with, you are in a good position.

  • Soul Piede (F+HK): If S HK is the move to use where S MK can’t reach, this is the move to use where S HK would become out of touch. Longest reaching normal for her, interesting arc too. It hits pretty high, keeping people out of the air at that distance, effectively knocking them back down. Sadly enough a bit tweaked in Super and not the move anymore it was in Vanilla. It’s a good surprising poke when you have enough advantage to place this at a time they can’t be jumping over it. If they are, you are dead.

  • Soul Spark (HCF+P): If it weren’t for Sakura, this could be the worst fireball in the game. You simply cannot use this for pressure, and it’s not even safe in blockstrings due to slow startup. Does higher than normal damage (80 instead of 60), but still, you need to be hitting it. You likely won’t. It does have a few things going for it: it varies in speed a bit like those from Guile (you can follow your LP spark a bit, and you can do Guile shenanigans if you FADC it) what makes it a harassment tool against turtlers, and it is a the special to use in combo extensions. Whatever combo you do: end with spark instead of spiral to keep the opponent standing, FADC and continue what you were doing. As I aid though, if you do it on block, you can easily be reversed though it. Not usable at mid-range like Ryu does, as the recovery takes ages. And a few years after that.
    The EX spark has been nerfed in damage hard, making it a bit too expensive in plain punishes. I do like using it when I have 3 EX stock, as an FADC afterwards nets you up to +10 frame advantage on hit, making it very easy to link into great things like C HP or Ultra 2 (even Ultra 1, but really?)
    The main uses:
    [LIST]
    []LP spark: best harassment because it’s harder to neutral jump it. Good spark to follow with a dash or slide. Only spark that can hit after a medium attack (no sparks hit after light attacks). Will be your spark for combos.
    [
    ]MP spark: it can hit after a heavy attack, but there is no point to do so.
    []HP spark: aside from being faster, it recovers faster too. This is your best meaty spark.
    [
    ]EX spark: blasts through normal fireballs, makes FADC combos easy. Lovely punish against people whiffing moves at a distance, like hyperkinetic focus-fishers.

[/LIST]

  • Soul Spiral aka drill (QCF+K): Just like Ryu or Sagat players may hurt your ears by constantly shouting the same thing over and over, Rose players may as well too. As soon as she hit one of her normals at closer range, she can end it with a safe spiral. Which she will. They come in three variations:
    [LIST]
    [
    ] LK Spiral: very fast startup (cancels from C LP eg), low reach, very bad recovery
    [
    ] MK Spiral: good startup, good recovery
    [*] HK Spiral: slow startup, great reach, great recovery
    [/LIST]
    Usually the MK spiral is the best choice, like after a C MP. It does get tricky though when doing longer strings. For example after two jabs, a short and a linked C MP only an EX drill will still hit due to its further reach and faster startup. The rest will whiff or end up blocked.
    This is her focus-breaker. She doesn’t have any other good options to break, just use this. If you see people focusing for slide or pokes, start drilling like Palin. Together with slide drill builds her pressure and keeps it going. Pokes get her out of reach, drills won’t.

  • *Soul Throw *(D, DF, F+P): If I didn’t list it here nobody would’ve noticed, right? The normal versions are bad, they won’t hit. The EX version is decent. Point is that you will normally use C HP as anti-air where EX ST could work, so that saves you one EX. I use a naked (outside of combo) EX ST only when I don’t have the frames to start a C HP. On wake-up against late jumpins, usually. Like all moves, does have some exotic uses, though (see tips and tricks). In Super they made it possible to juggle with it. Along with the added damage, this move suddenly is very usable after HP reflect FADC or after plain HP reflect in the corner. Finally the normal version has a reason to exist.

  • Reflect (QCB+P): In vanilla this wasn’t easy to do. against characters with varying projectile speeds like Guile and Sagat I would dimply not even try. Now it has more reflective frames, making it a lot safer to try. Four samples:
    [list]
    [] LP reflect: absorbs for half an EX stock. Knocks back hard on hit.
    [
    ] MP reflect: reflect normal fireball with same speed. Also knocks back.
    [] HP reflect: reflect upwards, knocks opponents upwards.
    [
    ] EX reflect: reflects EX fireballs back. Hits opponents in a queer way.
    [/list]
    Thanks to the reflect she can force opponents to come to her. She has no issues with fireball wars as it just gives her loads of EX to either mount dangerous offense, or to blast through the fireballs with EX fireballs. That’s why Guile has Rose listed as a bad match-up. The HP reflect is a nice choice against those who follow-up fireballs like Guile, Chun or Akuma. I think you should use absorb mostly though. The free stock is too good.
    Thanks to the Soul Throw follow-up it is now a very good idea to reflect opponents upwards. Very hard to hit, but solid damage. Mid-screen requires FADC (it’s easy, lots of time), in corners you don’t need any at all. If you have Ultra 2 you are in for a ride: just juggle with that and then with the Soul Throw. In vanilla Rose could never really do damage, in Super she can go up to 500, thanks to the former three most unusable moves in her game: reflect, ultra and soul throw. Eventually it all plays out.

That’s it for Part 1, Part 2 will follow anytime now.


Safe jumps and tech
#3

4. Spacing

*Only in art will the lion lie down with the lamb, and the rose grow without thorn. *

Opinions might differ. The best place you can put Rose has to be the place where she can be most effective and your opponent can not. That is a usable definition of correct spacing, as the outcome changes depending on the character and opponent you are facing. Looking at her excellent normals, the most unique aspect she has is reach while maintaining safety (safer than say Dhalsim) and speed (faster than say Honda). In the most common setup you can try cashing in from the good pokes like S MK, S HP and slide. A bit closer than that C MP becomes the best bet, even closer than that jabs will open up your offense. Her footsie game can be built from those moves. Rose has a good move for each distance. For example C LP, C LP xx C LK, C MP, S MK and then S HK in sequence is a viable attack that has a good chance of scoring counterhits. Whatever you use from her main normals, hit with the tip and it’s fine.
This is especially true for her drills, these can be dangerous when blocked, but the right spacing maintains your momentum. Generally your opponent should regard drills as safe moves, and when that happens, you can keep pressure on all day long and make them bet on reversals. Another thing to consider is that she has to anti-air with C HP, so if you dance around the jump-in distance where they land on top of you, you will always score a clean hit. That distance is the distance where your slide will hit them too, giving you the option to defend against aerial attacks or mount an offense.
Another good position to obviously is full-screen. Any fireball that comes to you is free EX, and any hesitation is an opening for yout fireball setups. Annoy them, set them up with fireball and dashes etc. I personally like to be up close too, as she can easily spar with the best then push them out to your good distance. And her throws are mean, too. Just don’t get knocked down.

5. Attacking

*One rose says more than the dozen. *

The slide is my personal favorite due to it’s safety and effect of surprise. On paper only a far slide is safe enough, but just like any slide it has the effect of confusing the opponent even when unsafe avoiding retaliation. Experienced players will punish deep slides hard, but most will just block or mash something which just gets them thrown. Slide lead to the Holy Three: attack, bait or throw. Slide to throw is very scary thanks to her throw range. It’s so scary that you have big chances just scoring with a follow-up attack like C LP, C LK or C MP. Which leads into her links or cancels.
Her forward dash is fast enough to use too. Just outside of S MK range dash in and throw. This especially breaks turtles who dont press anything and gets them going. If you’re ballsy you can mix-up with dash to jabs. One of my favorite corner shenanigans is to dash up then C LP xx HP reflect. Nets you the ST or Ultra 2 upon hit, and is pretty safe (the animation is weird) otherwise.
A blocked spark can get you in too. Further away, just FADC a spark mid-screen and dash after it to create Guile-like setups. Her drills are useful against opponents who stay grounded and try to attack you in the middle, like Dudley. If it comes to footsies, her pokes combined with the special S MK should cover most cases. Some hard battles ahead against the likes of Bison and Chun, but feasible. That’s where you want to jump-in once in a while. Same goes for fireball pokers.
She doesn’t have many setups after knockdown, simply because only her back-throw is a hard knockdown that puts you at an interesting distance. Her forward-throw opens op a good wake-up game by itself though. The back-throw makes it possible to place an ambiguous crossup, and even better sets her up to do a LP spark FADC, then cross-up. Both hit at the same time from a different side. This must be her best shenanigan. If you score a knockdown with dril however (should happen a lot), then crossing up immediately gives you a clean cross-up on opponents who quickstand. If they don’t just go to your wake-up tactics.
Whenever you are attacking, try to lead into a safe drill, then continue. One of her best pressure strings is C LP, C LK, C MP (1-frame) xx LK/MK drill. After the C LP, C LK you can mix-up with throw, bait or cross-up. Bait works pretty well since most reversals will land between the C LK, C MP part. Instead of drill you can trade in a spark if you need space or if you have enough stock to FADC it and dash to throw or combo. If you get thrown a lot the close-version of standing MK is your best friend that leads into crouching jab. After cross-up I like the S MP, C MP link (1-frame) because it confirms so easy and is pretty safe to drill after.
If you happen to be so lucky to push your enemy to the corner, that’s where she excels. Whenever you can and a HP reflect, you can land Soul Throw (160 damage) or Ultra2+ST for free. Her FADC combos get better too, as EX spark even lets you do a Level 2 focus afterwards. Ultra 2 in the corner pins them completely down, leading into free throws or level 2/3 focuses.
*
Wake-up pressure*
These are some options to pressure upon a fallen opponent:
[list]
[] close: meatie C LK -> link into combo
[
] close: meatie C LK -> throw
[] close: bait -> punish
[
] close: throw
[] close: SC MK -> to jab xx drill
[
] close: backdash -> punish
[] close: C LP (with possible option select C LP + C HK that kills backdashes)
[
] medium: C MK -> cancel into drill
[] medium: meatie slide -> into post-slide
[
] medium: meatie spark -> pressure
[] far: meatie sweep
[
] far: slide
[] far: meatie HK drill
[
] far: dash into throw
[] jump: neutral J MK -> into throw/combo
[
] jump: J MK as crossup
[*] jump: J HP as safe-jump (with possible option-select drill)
[/list]
There are many more, with some tricky setups too. See tips and tricks. Oh yes, if you play Rose you don’t focus (it’s awful, situational at best). You let the spirits guide you.

6. Defending

*A rose is the visible result of an infinitude of complicated goings on in the bosom of the earth and in the air above, and similarly a work of art is the product of strange activities in the human mind. *

I lied about the focus. She can use it as a defensive tool. From areas where C HP would fail as anti-air (people trying to hot you with the tip of something) you can just block or do the focus-backdash move. It doesn’t give the opponent momentum by avoiding blockstun, and it fills the Ultra meter handily. Next time you can anti-air the hard-headed adversary with Ultra. Focus-backdash works so well because her backdash is godlike. Maybe Chun has a better one, maybe Ibuki, but Rose has no issues getting out of trouble at mid-screen either. Lots of invincible frames, huge space recreated in a flash. If you like your spacing around slide/drill then this sets you up. Even a bit further from pressure a backdash is a good setup for fireball or reflect (you don’t want to fireball at mid-screen).
In Vanilla she got screwed like IKEA furniture at places where backdashes didn’t work. After hard knockdown where the opponent can cross-up, against opponents with good options-elect and especially in the corner. The EX drill might get you out, if it actually hits them first. It’s still your go-to reversal, but it sucks. The EX Soul Throw can make you escape too. All are risky. The Rose-Gief matchup is decided on the fact whether Rose kan keep him out a whole round or not.
She needed something to get better than her low-tier status she had. Her damage output was low and her defense was weak. Ultra2 was invented and problem was partially solved. Whatever happens, you can not fail by activating it. You can fail by trying to do something with it, but that’s your bad. As a wake-up reversal ultra 2 kills meaties, throws, jump-ins and crossups pretty well. Even if it is too late or was baited, you can just block and try putting pressure with the orbs you have left. Do mind that these orbs are fireballs, and thus all fireball-invincible moves beat it clean. Best thing is to block the first frame after activation then decide what to do next.
Crouch-tech works okay for her resulting in a usable 4-frame low kick when it misses. You can also FADC-backdash sparks against opponents who are itching for you to fire one off, like an Abel with Ultra 1. Good stuff.


#4

7. Getting damage

Arguably Rose has a low damage output. When she is low on stock, mid-screen punishes are depressingly anemic. Any kind of flash will be punished by the scaling system. I have tried to list the combos that are useful to her in real match-ups. I considered combinations of scenarios where you have to confirm, where you have to be quick, where you have to be safe and where you have more time and/or better spacing (show them those corners). A raw - it still lacks metadata - video with examples is up at [media=youtube]YRz5aw4KI8A[/media]. These are not the highest-damaging combos; they are intended for those like me who will never quite be representing at EVO. If you are looking for highest damage, 581 is the number to beat.

Update for AE2012

Update for USF4

Mid-screen combos (can be done anywhere)

Zero stock:
[LIST]
[]C MP xx LP spark - 140 easy, do mind negative edge giving you MP spark
[
]C MP xx spiral - 160 failsafe punish
[]C HP xx reflect - 150 creates room, okay on block
[
]S HK xx spiral - 200 best easy vanilla punish
[]C HP xx spiral - 200 the better easy punish in super
[
]SC MP, C MP xx drill - 210 strongest punish, 1-frame link
[]SC MK, C LP xx LK spiral - 170 confirmable knockdown, 1-frame link but easier on counterhit
[
]C LP xx C LK, C MP xx spiral - 168 bread and butter confirm, 1-frame link
[]C LK, C LP xx spiral - 130 2-frame version, quick knockdown
[
]J HK, ultra 2, SC HP xx drill - 403 if you are confident the jump-in will land
[/LIST]

One stock:
[LIST]
[]C LP xx C LP xx C LK, C MP xx EX drill - 166 Saqscombo, very confirmable, 1-frame link
[
]SC MK, C LP, C LK, C MP xx EX drill - 216 good damage on this confirm, but two 1-framers? Hope you are Asian
[/LIST]
Two stocks:
[LIST]
[]C MP xx LP spark FADC, C LP xx LK drill - 226 petty damage, but easy to execute, 3-frames after the dash
[
]C HP xx LP spark FADC, C MP xx drill - 298 this is what you get for executing well, 2-frames after dash
[]C HP xx HP reflect FADC, ST - 278 the new Rose combo. Easy damage for easy juggle. Needs to be point blank though
[
]C MP xx LP spark FADC, ultra 2, C MP xx drill - 382 not as hard as it looks, there are better variations but you wont likely be missing this
[/LIST]

Three stocks:
Not much interesting going on with 3 stocks, except you can swap an LP spark with an EX spark for more room. It is possible to do a C HP after LP spark FADC, which is way better than C MP, but timing and spacing is very strict. After EX Spark, this becomes very easy to do. Interesting to note though is that EX sparks give you pretty crazy near-corner combos because of the big knockback on them. The Following have to be done so that the latter part of the combo ends up in a corner:
[LIST]
[]J HP, C HP xx EX spark, C HP xx HP reflect, ST - 450 450 damage without ultra, yes
[
]J HK, C HP xx EX spark, C HP xx HP reflect, ultra 2, ST - 524 amazing damage here and not even hard to perform
[/LIST]
Four stocks:
If you can hold on to your stock long enough to get super, I esteem the chances on winning the round around 90%. It’s so easy to land after BnB’s.
[LIST]
[]C MP xx drill, super - 400 basic punish with easy super at the end
[
]C HP xx HP reflect, super - 390 I just really like this
[]SC HP, LP spark, super - 410 the fact that you have to super so fast after spark makes it not confirmable, but it looks good
[
]SC MP, C MP, drill, super - 417 simple logic doesn’t apply here, the best 0-stock combo is not the best super setup
[]C HP xx drill, super - 440 (this is)
[
]C MP xx LP spark FADC, C MP xx LP spark FADC, C MP xx drill - 330 I have no stun ratio’s, but this will yield better results on that since super does 0 stun
[/LIST]
Corner combos:
[LIST]
[]C LP xx HP reflect, ST - 198 the jab has better chances of hitting than a C HP, and if it does it hits heavy
[
]C HP xx HP reflect, ultra 2, ST - 414 the basic Ultra 2 combo
[]C HP xx HP reflect, ultra 2, super - 498 all rise
[
]C HP xx drill xx super, ultra 2 - 581 Rose is here
[/LIST]

The addition of Ultra 2 and juggable ST in Super really made the difference for her potential damage. The lower damage on jabs means that you better confirm out of other things if possible, I think SC MK is underused in this aspect. To get consistent with Rose you will have to nail those 1-frame links; plinking might help. But if you don’t, it might be a good idea to just look for that nice corner damage you can do.

Check the video at Youtube for a visual reference to this. Check video for fancier stuff she can do. To get a deep look into Rose SSF4 features, see the detailed video from Renegade

A new vid was added with some more tricks and combos:

8. Tips and tricks

Here are 38, well 37, Rose random tricks out of the SRK hat.
[LIST=1]
[]Use S MK up-close, it cannot be thrown and it can confirm into a combo like C LP xx LK spiral
[
]After a back-throw, do an LP spark FADC, then jump. Your crossup will hit in sync with the fireball
[]Jumping LK is an instant overhead on bigger characters. Using ‘fuzzy guard’ (don’t you just love those terms?), it’s an overhead on everyone
[
]Dash up and throw can be really surprising if they expect the usual pokes
[]When the opponent is close to the corner, try dashing up and doing C LP xx HP reflect. Gets you free Ultra2/ST combo afterwards
[
]As offensive wake-up game a dash back then dash-forward opens up possibilities
[]At offensive wake-up dashing back and doing an HK drill to get the hit in often catches them off-guard
[
]At offensive wake-up a perfectly spaced sweep can do wonders
[]At offensive wake-up a meatie HP (recovers faster) spark keeps them in stun while you maintain momentum
[
]Against opponents who backdash out of trouble on their wake-up, try the C.LP, C.LP+C.HK option-select
[]She also has a safe-jump option-select with J.HP,spiral(still in air),jab
[
]An immediate jump after an MK spiral yields a perfectly timed crossup.
[]Use C.HP with variations of drill instead for non-crossups after drill knockdown
[
]You can cancel the C.HP anti-air into a meatie spark or a spiral to maintain pressure
[]EX ST auto-corrects pretty well on meatie jump-ins, and misses relatively safe
[
]Ultra2 gets you out of trouble. But block at least one frame if they didn’t attack during freeze
[]Ultra2 with on orb left makes it easy to tick-throw
[
]If they freeze-up when you have Ultra2 active, try level 3 focus to get them loose
[]A blocked super is some chip-damage and a great opportunity to dash-throw
[
]Slide follow-ups work better if you’ve thrown after it once or twice
[]One-framers on block are good frame-traps, but also reversal food
[
]Slide is a pretty solid move to open a match with
[]Any slide that gets jumped over gives you momentum
[
]If they land on the other side without being able to hit you, don’t throw, hit them in their landing frames
[]Close MP is a pretty great attack at such times if you can hit the 1-frame link to C.MP.
[
]When absorbing/reflecting, look out for EX meter. Big chance they’ll throw it as soon as they have it
[]Focus-backdash dashes back further than plain backdash
[
]A meatie C.LK at their wake-up keeps them on the ground and knock them out of tech. A throw afterwards works wonders (Luffy tactic)
[]If that gets unoriginal try the unused close S.LK to mix tick-throw attempts up
[
]At their wake-up whiff a meatie HK drill, then immediately do a throw
[]At their wake-up whiff a meatie HK drill, then immediately do an C.LP combo
[
]In the left corner the J.HP has unexplicable cross-up properties
[]After a blocked drill that looks dangerously deep, opt for the EX drill.
[
]S.MK beats a lot of low pokes clean
[]An LP spark FADC at full-screen followed by a jump either gives you a pre-emptive air-to-air or a reasonably safe jump-in
[
]Activating ultra 2 on their wake-up keeps them pinned, then get orbital.
[]Ultra 1 is designed to counter Blanka rolls
[
]Thank god we have Ultra 1
[]slide is a great anti-air for jumps that are out of reach of c.hp. Throw afterwards works really well too.
[
]Focus then dash out forward to throw is very quick thanks to her long dash.
[]SC.MK to C HP is a good frametrap
[
][media=youtube]dhe9LjvP7bs[/media] shows several ambiguous setups
[/LIST]
9. Match-up vids

These match-up vids were easily retrieved from http://www.sf4tube.com/ - If you want more, just click Rose and then ‘Rose versus’.
[LIST]
[]Ryu - Luffy (Ro) vs Ryan Hart (Ry)
[
]Ryu - TheGame (Ry) vs Arturo (Ro)
[]Ken - Arturo (Ro) vs Mornistar (Ke)
[
]Honda - Luffy (Ro) vs Lord DVD (Ho)
[]Ibuki - Arturo (Ro) vs DragonGod (Ib)
[
]Dudley SSJ2Jeff (Ro) vs Jamrawk (Du)
[]Seth - Tokido (Se) vs ? (Ro)
[
]Gouken - [Taaj (Ro) vs Roboduck (Go)](‘http://www.youtube.com/v/mVTVoTFigvM ?autoplay=1&border=1&fs=1&start=35#t=0m35s’)
[]Akuma - river wong (Ro) vs Tokido (Ak)
[
]Gen - Taaj (Ro) vs RaisedByFinches (Ge)
[]Sakura - Taaj (Ro) vs Raiff (Sk)
[
]Juri - SSJ2Jeff (Ro) vs eiSH (Ju)
[]Chun - ClakeyD (Ch) vs Arturo (Ro)
[
]Dhalsim - MicVlad (Dh) vs Luffy (Ro)
[]Abel - Juicebox Abel (Ab) vs Arturo (Ro)
[
]Viper - Arturo (Ro) vs Sanford (Vi)
[]Bison - Luffy (Ro) vs Gagapa (Bi)
[
]Sagat - tiaflatte (Ro) vs sunset01 (Sa)
[]Cammy - Goliath (Ca) vs Arturo (Ro)
[
]Deejay - Henry Cen (De) vs Arturo (Ro)
[]Cody - Ryan Hunter (Co) vs SSJ2Jeff (Ro)
[
]Guy - Alex Valle (Gy) vs Genghis (Ro)
[]Hakan - Wildcat815 (Ha) vs Seveku (Ro)
[
]Guile - SSJ2Jeff (Ro) vs PsyKick (Gu)
[]Blanka - Taaj (Ro) vs Alphamale (Bl)
[
]Zangief - Taaj (Ro) vs Hadoshrooms (Za)
[]Rufus - Zero2000 (Ru) vs Luffy (Ro)
[
]Fuerte - Dawgtanian (El) vs Luffy (Ro)
[]Vega - Gl1tch (Ve) vs SSJ2Jeff (Ro)
[
]Balrog - PR Balrog (Ba) vs Luffy (Ro)
[]Fei - Luffy (Ro) vs Starnab (Fe)
[
]Adon - Dr Chaos (Ad) vs Arturo (Ro)
[*]Rose - Taaj (Ro) vs Vecayse (Ro)
[/LIST]
10. Ending notes

This write-up was inspired by great players like Saqs, Shinkuur, Chronikalz, Luffy and many more who post on SRK forums and/or Youtube. Make sure to look for them on Youtube for match-up advise. May the spirits be with you.


#5

Wow, beautifully done, i was hoping id see a Kiss from a rose reference from batman somewhere in there lol


#6

i like this a lot. but like sparks, drills can be punished on block with certain reversals no? like shoryuken? of course safe drills are possible from the right distance though.

all in all very good information and looking forward to the finished product. and maybe you could add crouching short hits low, which makes it so great meaty. i think her ST is still useful against certain characters like elf, vega and adon. occasionally hawk. and cant she grab a lot of character’s air specials with it? maybe you can add something about this if you go into match up specifics.

imo ex version is still a pretty damn good AA special and rose builds meter like crazy so why not? stops a lot of meaty jump ins. also, you mentioned its not possible to connect a normal drill after crouching jab jab short strong, it may be character specific but it is possible, not that i always use ex drill to be safe and for distance, just thought id mention it. correct me if im wrong on any of this please.

nice work.


#7

You are right in every aspect, but that’s so detailed that this write-up would effectively become a book :slight_smile: If this is right in 90% of the cases this should be useful for newcomers. But for us, mainers, it is clearly too rough on the edges.


#8

ahh i see i wasnt exactly sure what you were going for with this, if it was gonna end up like a novel or not lol. i guess thats what the match up and move set threads are for. but i really think this is good and will prove very useful for rose beginners trying to get the basics down and understand her.


#9

I really really disagree on Rose not doing much damage. Her basic 2 meter combo does almost 350 damage, certainly not 260 as you said (or were you restricting yourself to combos starting with light attacks?); 2 meter + ultra is around 450 (not sure if I remember correctly), 4 meter + ultra gets you in the 600+ damage range and we all know how fast Rose builds meter. Add the increased damage possibilities if the opponent is cornered, and consider all the nasty resets/mixups involving ultra 2 and we should agree that her damage potential is comparable to Ryu if not superior.

Only problem is that most of her good combos require good execution, and I certainly am not good enough to use them reliably. How many Rose players use cl.MP, cr.MP, drill as their punisher meterless combo? Or cl.MP, cr.LK, cr.MP, drill (meterless against some characters) or even cl.MK, cr.LP, cr.LK, etc.

It seems to me that Rose tends to attract players that don’t focus much on execution, and then they later realize how much execution heavy she can be if you want to play her at full potential.


#10

I’m cutting a vid of her combos as we speak, seems that midscreen with 2 EX the best I could get was 278. We’ll see for the rest of the scenario’s. The comment was indeed more valable in vanilla than in super.
Agree on the execution trouble.


#11

Nice writeup mang.

I think shes on the low end of the damage charts…I mean her “go to” punish is c.mp>drill and thats pretty weaksauce coming from playing ken where I could c.mk>ex.tatsu for 250+ with mixup afterwards. Rose definitely isn’t a character like rufus where you guess right once and win. You gotta be on the ball the entire game to pull of wins consistently.
Also, +1 for VERY EXECUTION INTENSIVE CHARACTER.
All bnbs = 1 frame link
spark fadc combos = 1 frame link
CH setups = 1 frame link
Slide>c.mp = 1 frame link
And since none of her moves really put her into +frames on block, plinking moves out of hitstun is essential.

If you plan on playing a high level rose then you better be able to c.lk,c.lk,c.lk,c.mp,drill. Practice that plinking shiz.


#12

cl. mk is good to start combos cuz it cant be thrown. so that last combo (minus the cr. lk just do a lk drill instead) is friggin sweet. tho its not really heavy hitting its still good and should be used more imo.

i know i stopped paying attention to dmg lately when im in training mode since im just practicing links, but iirc rose cant do more than 300 dmg with 2 bars. unless in the corner…cr.hp xx ex spark cr. mp xx drill…maybe?

i think rose’s dmg is weak. but her combo potential i believe is still untapped. theres one specifically i do that i NEVER see any other roses do. cr. lk, cr. lp, cr. lp, cr. lk, cr. mp, ex drill. its a great block string. if you dont get a hit, dont follow it up with drill, just far mk or something instead. and her u2 really opens up combos for her. makes st. mp cr. mp easy mode.


#13

I have training mode in front of me now:
cr.HP xx Lp spark FADC cr.HP xx drill is 330
cr.HP xx Lp spark FADC ultra 2 slide (2nd orb hits) cr.HP xx drill is 460
cr.HP xx drill xx super ultra 2 is 581
That’s pretty godlike damage to me, and I haven’t even considered corner combos.
Also, you can start from cr.LP xx cr.LK (our precious hitconfirmable bread and butter) and land
cr.LP xx cr.LK cr.MP EX spark FADC into whatever you want (ultra 2 or cr.HK or cr.HP -> drill), so it is possible to get high damage starting from hitconfirmable light attacks. (and of course with full super you can just do cr.LP xx cr.LK cr.MP drill xx super ultra 2).

By the way I like cr.MK, the range is great and it’s safer than the slide, also the recovery is good which makes up for the bad startup and makes it useful in blockstrings.


#14

I’m darn impressed.

But all of Rose’s crouching normals are amazing and all of them should be used 1.

And I don’t agree that you shouldn’t focus with Rose since focus back dash is godlike D:

@prorook
cr.lk cr.lk cr.lk cr. lp soul spiral is a waste of your time and effort.

You can’t plink anything but cr.lp.

It’s 4 frames so you might as well do a cr. mp (10-20 less damage) and you would usually hit it after a cross up which means you should just do a cr. hp spiral and it does more damage.

So I would just do cr. lp cr. lk cr.mp spiral for damage and effectiveness as well as how easy it is to do.


#15

or focus a poke with high recovery and dash forward for a throw? always one of my favorites.

and filipinoman…Acku mentioned rose’s FA options in the “defending” section against cross ups and other jump ins. he just mentioned its not great offensively due to its poor, sagat-like, reach.

@ eae. those are all punishers, not saying theyre bad combos, and i think thats basically what you were going for…just showing her potential. but the cr. lk, cr. mp link is easily the most important thing to learning rose and should be learned, or at least get some type of grasp on it, before trying to get too heavy with her. not that im perfect at all at it. i still practice it all the time and dont land it no more than 70 percent of the time…


#16

Hmm, who were you performing this against? I tried a few times and usually I whiffed, so I put this in corner-combo section. Are you sure it works against like, say, Ibuki? The C HP reach is so low.
Best punisher that always works is C HP xx HP reflect FADC ST so far. And even so, I’m not that happy with that as a punisher since it does require you to be pretty close. Perhaps that’s why you sometimes would use SC HP to start with, as I saw Luffy do in his final. Still, it means it’s a close attack. I’m not too happy about punishing whiffed LP SRK’s with this.

The Super and Ultra combos look insane, but you list those also as punishers. An empty Ultra 1 without meter does almost the same thing for whole the cast. If it weren’t for damn iVideo, I had these stats up for discussion already.


#17

Amazing thread, gotta read it. Thanks for your work Acku.


#18

this does work anywhere and im pretty sure against everyone, im fairly certain im able to do it…but its a difficult 1 frame link much like all her high dmg combos. i always go with cr. mp after FADC just cuz its easier. but cr. hp is great if you can land it on hit confirm. obv if its blocked from the start you wouldnt even try this.


#19

My execution after FADC is not that great, so uhm… :slight_smile: I added the combos I focus on in part 3, the third post in this thread. Made a video to make it less cryptic: [media=youtube]b1RRPVLnVM8[/media]
Pretty sure I missed a ton of good stuff, please suggest


#20

Judging from that video you find it harder to combo into cr.HP after FADC spark than to combo into ultra 2. Which is weird because both are 5 frames startup, and ultra cannot be plinked.
The funny thing is that I also have a similar experience. Do ultras in this game have a 2 frame buffer when they are not used as reversals?

After FADC ultra I think the best thing to do midscreen is st.HK, (2nd orb hits) cr.HK. You can also use slide, (2nd orb hits) cr.HP xx drill, but it only does 20 dmg more, is techable, and whiffs randomly on some characters.
On corner you have the hard but deadly combo: ultra, cr.HP xx HP spark, cr.HP xx HP reflector, soul throw. The 2nd orb hits between cr.Hp and spark allowing it to combo, then you have to plink another cr.HP after the spark.

By the way I think it’s worth trying combos that start with cr.HP xx LP spark FADC even if you are not 100% sure it will hit, because if it’s blocked you still gain massive frame advantage and get a chance to throw or use cl.MK as a tech trap.