MVC2 aged for perfection: What if MVC2 was like this?


#1

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This topic is to debate some new features to improve or make better: Marvel vs Capcom 2.5 or Marvel vs Capcom 3, and also SF vs DC, Marvel vs DC (if all this games could exist), or whatever Versus game that should use MVC2 engine to become a success.

Please don’t come with ideas that changes all the game like: limited assist call/Random assist (MVC1), Tekken Tag “Kill one of two for the win” (Sirlin’s idea - but changes the game a lot), No assists, etc.

MVC2 is a success, and as I said, the supposed game or new features should make a perfect game.

Of course graphics and Sprites redraw are included in improvements, so, no need to talk about them.

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I saw Arcana Heart and I found it very interesting. What I wanna focus on is: SPACE.

Arcanas Heart screen space is LARGE, and the movements seen to be a lot more free.

Watch the second fight from this video:

[media=youtube]XKo_YIiipVw[/media]

Take a time looking on how much the scenario is big and the PERFECTION AND SMOOTHNESS of the Zoom system, and the freedom of movements that it gives.

Space is apparently 1.5 times the Marvel 2 normal, not only horizontal, but vertical too (vertical looks about 3 times the size of Marvel!). With this, it can automatically fix bugs of characters that disappears above the screen. And it can have a invisible limit, for some characters, as Dhalsim, do not go up even more (unless in a combo or with a special like seen in the video, imagine a FAB going all this way up and then Down, twice the Super Jump Height). If someone go All that way up, he can be easily hit by a Captain Coleda or other supers.

The Zoom (-) allow the characters to get rid a lot more, instead of stuck in the “virtual corner” corner like MVC2.

What it should affect? From what I see, Spiral trap continues to work identically. Space Control changes a bit. But it should affect more the pressure that a Sentinel could do, so is the tranquility that Cable has to call Sent-C, jump and throw a grenade. Imagine this from the maximum distance in Arcana Heart video (above). Space Control is more fragile.

This is because you now have more FREEDOM.

However, what I found the most interesting was the super jumps. In Arcana Heart, when somebody Super Jumps, the screen does not focus on the jumping character and then puts arrows indicating where assists and main opponent are, that makes you confused when you are in the ground and have to block, or even in the air and has to attack. When somebody jumps, it simply do a ZOOM (-), and you can see two characters. Also, with the movement freedom, the game becomes now more dynamic.

This is very interesting because it avoids Bugs or crazy broken combos, that makes some characters too much strong, like Sent air throw reset into combo, with more space, after air throw, youll be throw far. In a 56 characters game, where we use 10 or even less, with more freedom you automatically gives the game MORE BALANCE.

I dont have in my mind now an example of a Bug in MVC2 that could be automatically corrected (if someone knows and would like to add, feel free), however, in Xmen-vs Street Fighter, sometimes after a Sabretooth Beserker Claw (special move or the Super move when Tag Teamed), if it connects late, while the victim do the Hit Stun animation (shake a bit in the air, then fall), if you launch him, you go up in a Aerial Rave while the screen focus the ground, you see only the shadows and hits counting. Looks like a Mugen of SF when you put a MVC character on it, because there is no Super Jump in the original game, there is no SJ Screen. While you don’t touch the ground, the focus will remains wrong.

Also, any Snap Back Assist Rape Bug (that shit is broken) can be avoided if the screen opens for the Snap Launch, because it should launch both assist and main character far, but, main character falls off the screen and assist fall in the “virtual” end of screen.

Other enhancement, is that, when you die, the screen opens for the bigger side for you to safely jump in the fight. So, if you died, your next character don’t fall in the pressure, so you still have chance to win.

And with more space, Assists become not so deadly.

And, finally, if the time between assist call rises, just to be more precise, if it doubles, with more space and less assist, you can have a victorious comeback even if you are alone, and a match between Charlie vs Magneto+Psylocke as assist will not have a already known result (Charlie’s rape). Charlie can stand a chance if he lures Psy to come in, than do a Man-to-Man combat. Commando could Call Mummy to get rid of Magneto, counter with Coleda xx Cap Sword… But unfortunately we can’t do much more for Zangief.

It dont solve all the balance (actually, unbalance) problem, but a match between Mag/Tron-C vs Psy/Tron-C (for example) could be much more fair, because both should call tron more wisely. If you compare to the “former” Marvel 2, the smooth Zoom system plus “Twice the time Between Assists Call”, it helps the balance and fun factor a lot, and it is also more friendly.

Unless you are a HQ fan and say: “Magneto is a god and should be as it is, Wolverine cannot stand a chance against him, keep the game as it is”, you should agree with me, at least in part.

That is it. Watch the video, say what you think.

PS: Mainly because of english, I might be editing this post. If something sound senseless, juts tell me.


#2

Nope.


#3

Slightly off-topic

Man,not to rag on Arcana Hearts,but it looks HELLA slow.Like I’m watching the fight in slow motion,or I’m in the matrix or some shit like that.I’ve never played it before,and this is the first movie I’ve watched of it in a long time.

Anyway,I guess it would help lesser characters with keep-away tactics,but as far as balancing out the 4 Gods,I don’t know about that.


#4

It plays a lot faster than that. Trust me.

Anyway, lol @ wishlist thread. You crazy Brazilians. You should be more worried about placing higher in the World Cup tourney and not getting bumped off by the Italians.


#5

^^^

Thankfully it plays faster than that.I hope it gets ported.


#6

I just had a burrito from Baja Fresh that I just found out had health code violations recently. Tasted fine, though.


#7

wow AH has a huge level


#8

it has a huge level but most of the combat seems to take place at phonebooth distance which makes the whole thing rather pointless other than to make combos look cool

anyway this thread is dumb


#9

LOL!!! OooOOOooOOOhHHhhHH!1!!!1~


#10

They lost to France, not Italy. France has a greaty record against Brazil. Italy can’t beat Brazil for a few decades now, I think… And please don’t generalize (brazilians are all the same, jews are all the same or whatever). Maybe I am overreacting, but I believe this kind of comment is pretty demeaning…

On topic, more space may equal too much keepaway. And Magneto does not win against Charlie because of his assists (Charlie can call assists too). Magneto simply has more options, but a great Charlie player can win, like JWong keeps beasting on top Mags with his Marrow, Charlie and whoever teams… To get more balance, you may give 8 way aiurdashes to everyone. More balanced - yes. More fun - Definitely no IMO, because the characters will play more and more alike.


#11

this is false, go watch a maori or yoriko match…and did you forget about arcanas such as lightning, fire etc all those are prime for long ranged battles

yoriko is all about annoying you midscreen into 50% combo
maori is all about annoying you from fullscreen with random shit, then u get frustrated and try to attack her and eat a whip into loop for your trouble.

considering you probably havent played the game and just watch vids…yeah theory fighter ftl :frowning:


#12

That would get ridiculously messy and kill the game before it even gets off the ground.

Personally I think Marvel 2.5 or whatever could just use a bump in the lower - mid tier characters. The top tier really can’t get much better short of completely breaking the game. I’d also probably kill the insanity of AHVB to the point where it’s safe in every scenario unless you flat out miss the opponent.

:rofl: Brilliant anology :rofl:


#13

yeah i wont deny i’m entirely basing this on watching vids

even so… if your keepaway is only there to allow you to land a huge combo…is it really keepaway? :confused:


#14

Im definitely not worried about placing higher in the World Cup
Tourney, DeathScythe. We are in the highest place right now. There is any other team 5 times champion? And every cup being favorite? Sure dont. So, we are not worried. BTW, thanks for the advice.

Lets sticky to the thread:

Of course MVC2 is hella faster than arcana heart. The game should be the same speed of MVC2.

It is not all about keepaway.

With the Zoom system, if you are about to jump, you can see pretty clear what is on the ground, what is above you, you can see it moving, how fast is it moving, you can plan what to do…

The visual will look clean, it will “call” new players to give it a try, cause they are scared with all that objects in the screen, all that glow and projectiles. They complain about all this thing.

As the game should sell, we must give attention to this. We should call new players. A friendly look sells more. Fighting games are only 4% of the games Gross profit (ESA foundation info) and harcore gamers are even less in number.

Balance is automatic when you die and your next character enter safely in the screen. Im not saying that all the problems are solved, as someone said, craziness, but, for that, everyone should have Triangle jumps, 8 options… But, rid him from pressure, that is the best we can do for Zangief without changing all the game, unless we give him wings… lol!


#15

I’ll do it from a true balance perspective, I know a lot of marvel heads won’t like this, but this is what Capcom would or at least should do if they would have made Marvel 2.5:

Tone down assists. It’s fine that it’s a team game, but still a non-cancellable start up period and/or a longer cool down period would help the game out I feel. They also need to fix the following:

  • Remove all known infinites (ROM, IM, etc.)
  • Remove all known Semi Infinites (HSF for example)
  • Nerf AHVB and improve recovery on his Ground HVB
  • Remove Sent and all other known unblockables
  • Remove Unfly
  • Make it so storm cannot block after lightning attacks and give her less priority on her standing HK. (possibly nerf some of her other normals aswell)
  • Unglitch Tronne’s Assist

That would balance out the top tiers and make other characters playable in tournies. However, they should do more than that, they should also improve all other characters aswell.

  • Remove Juggernaut’s Glitch, but increase his default strenght by 25%. Also give him his command throw from XvSF and make it so he can combo off of it (at least in the corner, if not mid screen)
  • Give all non-air dashing characters short jumps ala KOF. If not that then give them all some sort of overhead/mix up game.
  • Give every capcom character at least one new useful special move and a double jump if they don’t already have some seriously good air mobility.
  • Give almost everyone a air super, ESPECIALLY capcom characters.
  • Give Thanos a air throw and let him combo off his knee ala Rogue’s D+HK
  • Let Dan cancel out of his air gale kicks so he has a mock tri-jump and give him practical comboes into his supers. If you want to be mean then as a big joke make him the only character you leave completely unchanged from the original mvc2.
  • Give Zangief a good dash or at least give him a better super jump.

That would make the game a hell of a lot more balanced. Is it the same game we’ve been playing for the last 4 years? Hell no. But I bet it would still be fun, and people could pick anyone they want and still have a fair shot at winning. Also although you could do less with the top tier than you could do in the original game, you can do a whole lot more with everyone else. Not to mention that they would still be top tier cuz they still have most of the powerful shit they had before like tri jumps, fast flys, and powerful dhcs. It’s just that they wouldn’t be so far ahead of everyone else in this version of the game.


#16

The taste isn’t what’ll kill you.


#17

I heard Baja Fresh was top tier as hell. I’ve been meaning to go.


#18

It’s kinda pointless to argue this becuase its not going to change anything but just for the hell of it.

IMO nothing should be changed on the top four or the way the game is.
What needs to be done is all characters other than the top 4 need to be improved on.
For example improve recovery on certain moves, make others faster, more hitstun etc.

As an example lets say I wanted to make Iceman a better character, I could:
-Make Icebeam keep opponents on the ground on hit instead of the flip the do and heavier hitstun.
-Make his QCF+k move recover quicker(as good as a sonic boom).
-Give him an airdash, straight forward like an iceslide.
-Make his super recover better and hit consistently.
-slightly better stamina(100% maybe).
-Better priority on all fierce hits.

Something like that, I’m pretty sure would make Iceman alot better.
So just by looking at what each character has and making that better I’m sure you can balance the game without having to change what people already know and love about the game.


#19

That would make the game much better. The only thing I might not completely agree with you on is the assist start up and cool down unless it was a really small change in the timing of it.


#20

O O O WA O WA

Having rough sex to that song would be GOD.