MvC2: Joe Zaza teaches Wolverine

wolverine

#1

Audacityz what it takes to post one of these. Even Duc needed cojones to start the genre off!

I’m also answering questions about “projectile-assist oriented rushdown” and other low tiers. So fire away…


#2

i’d like to hear some strats with wolvie against the terrible 4 and maybe some combos? i just started using him on my low tier team.

My B&B with bonerine is d. c. short, c. foward, db+fierce, jab claw rush xx claw rush super… does decent dmg.

Does he have a speed up inf?


#3

Deus

Too much super armor… I normally dash in with lp -> lk, which’ll beat out anything before opponent thinks about it. Anything besides anti-air, anyway. People usually don’t poke in MvC2. Strategies like that got lost in MvC1.

If I think they’ll use anti-air, I’ll switch to baiting techniques. Come to think of it, I should treat Hulk + RP assist that way. You can afford to run into hits with that kind of endurance. Fuckin’ bastard.


#4

how do you catch a storm thats running away? and shes winning?


#5

People who use double characterz and actually win are my hero’z.:smiley: :cool: Zaza and Julius will alwayz be my hero’z. I wish had skillz like them.:frowning: Double wolvy and double IM fo life!!!


#6

post some strategys that you would do against the top 4…


#7

Wolvie vs. Magz i can somewhat do on occasion

vs. Mags, you HAVE to not get in a combo. Wolvie (i think bone is equal, if not faster) is almost as fast as Mags on the ground. Get the first hit, watch for openings. There are a lot of good mags players but they can’t keep up perfect rushdown forever. With Metal Wolvie, i go with [d.lk, d.lk, Fierce Barrage xx DP+KK super (one with a big X)] It does decent damage for how hard it is. And if you’re lucky, you can add a grab as they get up. Really, about 2 of these combos, magz will be very close to dying. Add in a few AAAs to fend off assists or to keep him at bay. Remember, once he gets you, it’s very possible that it’s over. I tend to vary my air comboes from

d.lp, d.lk, d.lp, launch, lp lk lp lp - Grab
d.lp, d.lk, d.lp, launch, lp lk lp lp lk Drill Claw

They’ll adapt to grabbing quickly sometimes, so drill claws the only to go for a decent combo, but i stick to ground combos with wolvie.


#8

supress the urge to share leet wolverine tactics like everyone else… you’re not teacher zaza so please stick with asking questions…


#9

dc_guru

OK, dude… I don’t know how other people perform this shtick, but this is how I’m gonna lay it out. When you ask me questions, I’ll quote what you originally said and edit it in order to answer each individual question. Otherwise, I’m gonna end up going every which way and eventually make an FAQ in response or something. So from now on both to you and everyone else: I apologize if I didn’t quote your post in its entirety or original form.

I’m going to assume that you mean Storm/Sentinel/Cable/Magneto.

Unfortunately, your question is way too vague to cover… I have tools to take each and every one of those guys, sure… but knowing which assist they play is also an important part of doing that. So from here on in, if you want to know what Wolverine can do against those four characters in general, make the question more specific; i.e. something along the lines of: “What kind of strategies would you use against Magneto/Psylocke?” or “What would you do against Cable/Sentinel?” I wouldn’t want to spend time answering your vague question only to give you a vague answer, and as insulting as it might seem, it’s only the truth.

I’ve got lots of those… AND AWAY WE GO:

SUPER COMBOS

[list][*]d.s. lk -> s. mk -> s. mk (double hit) XX Berserker Barrage X[/list]Wolverine: yes
Bonerine: yes

Accept no substitutes. Many people link into BBX with c. mp, but because it doesn’t work on Cable, Sentinel, and a few other big characters, I keep this one handy. I don’t want to make things any more complex than the have to be, so if I land a jump-in or punish a missed super against ANY character, this is what I go for.

[list][*]d.s. lk -> s. mk -> s. mk (double hit) XX HP Tornado Claw XX Fatal Claw[/list]Wolverine: yes
Bonerine: no

You can also fit a c. hp after the double hit medium kick, but it’s hard for me to combo into DPs from crouching moves… :sweat: It does more damage than the first super combo, but because it’s so easy to fuck up the cancel into super (you might get Berserker Rage), I’d stick with the first one.

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mk -> c. hp XX HP Berserker Barrage[/list]Wolverine: no
Bonerine: yes

That takes off a lot in and of itself. You could also either finish the c. hp off with a THC (if it’ll take off enough; the special move alone is more practical) or tap the HP Berserker Barrage an even number of times and cancel into Berserker Barrage X (BBX). For that, you’d count something like: (pressing HP) one, two, three, four, (QCF+PP) FIVE! (You could also go for six taps, but I wouldn’t risk it.)

There are also options for that combo when it’s done in the corner. You could simply tap the HP Berserker Barrage until it ends and immediately jump forward to air throw right afterwards (good damage and hard to tech) OR finish it with BBX and go for the flying screen air throw follow up: (c. lk -> c. hp, jump forward to air throw) either way, you’ll get decent damage.

AIR COMBOS

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk XX up-forward Drill Claw[/list]I begin the air combo with sj. lk because it lessens the damage scaling for Drill Claw, which is also the reason I omit the second mp. If I began the air combo with a straight launch (s. hk; anti-air situations), I’d go for four hits but still leave the sj. lp out:

[list][*]s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mp (double hit) -> sj. mk XX up-forward Drill Claw[/list]…and in the corner, I’ll always do:

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. hk XX forward Drill Claw[/list]Nothing has proven to do more damage… and that goes for the straight launch, too. Also note that with Bonerine, you’d want to follow any corner air combo up with either:

[sj. lk -> sj. hk] on the way down… or:

[sj. lk (pause), air throw] depending on their height. Now here’s the “air throw air combo:”

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. lp -> sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mp (double hit; pause), air throw[/list]The only problem with it is I never do it. I hate depending on the damage I get from mashing the air throw… what if I don’t mash well :confused: … and that’s if the mothafucka don’t tech the grab!? Random.

Take my advice: fuck dat shit…

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mk (pause) downward Drill Claw[/list]Only because it activates flying screen backwards (towards Wolverine) in certain parts of the screen. As opposed to doing the up-forward Drill Claw, which activates flying screen away from you, this leaves you options because the opponent is close to you as he gets up. I think the only characters this combo won’t work on are Blackheart, Juggernaut, and Sentinel. I’m not too sure about Cable, either.

Basically, I do this combo when I don’t want to put my opponent in the corner… Sounds absurd, but there are some characters you want to keep away from there. coughMAGNETOcough With Bonerine, however, that air combo would go either like this:

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mk (pause) downward Drill Claw, sj. lk (pause), air throw[/list]or like this:

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mk (pause) downward Drill Claw, sj. lk -> sj. hk[/list]and finally, the “Bonerine only” air combo:

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mp (double hit) XX HP Tornado Claw (rapidly tap HP)[/list]If you’re simply going for damage without follow-up options, go for that. I only do it when I know it’ll kill him.

OTHERS

[list][*]HP throw, d.s. lk -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk XX up-forward Drill Claw[/list]Again, less hits in the air to avoid scaling on Drill Claw. Also remember that in the corner the air combo would be: sj. hk XX forward Drill Claw.

[list][*]HP throw, d.s. hp XX Berserker Barrage X[/list]Doesn’t work on Cable or big characters like Blackheart, Juggernaut, and Sentinel.

[list][*]HP throw, d.s. lk -> c. hp XX HP Tornado Claw XX Fatal Claw[/list]If you mash the throw right, this is goooood damage. I’d only go for this if I threw from the corner (which of course flips the opponent into the corner).

AND OF COURSE, THE CLASSIC JUGGLE COMBO…

[list][*]sj. lp -> sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mp (double hit) -> sj. mk XX up-forward Drill Claw[/list]Some characters, like Dr. Doom, Iron Man, Magneto, Sentinel, and Storm have the advantage of doing either infinites, super combos or simply incredible damaging combos off of a single juggle. Wolverine has this. The bonus, however, are the options he gets after flying screen. (Seeit’s not a total loss.) Also keep in mind that he can do this during a regular jump, albeit without the second mp. Because both methods do decent damage, you’d either air throw or do this to keep your opponent from jumping in on you. Pretty simple.

sigh THERE… a nice, well rounded list of Wolverine/Bonerine combos. I’m gonna spare myself by not going into helper combos… if you want specific ones (Wolverine/Cyclops, Wolverine/Gambit, Wolverine/Sentinel, Wolverine/Spider-Man, etc…), just ask. If you’ve any other questions, just let me know.

Yes… yes he does. HOWEVER… the only time I use it is when I accidentally activate Berserker Rage. Being fast on the ground ain’t exactly the best way to go in this game (it’s actually air mobility that counts). Anyway, here’s the one I do:

[list][](d.s. lp -> s. lk -> s. mp -> s. mk,) X 4, d.s. lk -> s. mk XX Berserker Barrage X*[/list]I always keep the “infinite” pretty finiteunder 18 hits (any more activates dizzy recovery).

Berserker Rage prevents you from building meter and does bad damage, making this a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad combo. So remember to forget it. :stuck_out_tongue:

LP Berserker Barrage? That seems tougher if you ask me… I listed my version above, but if it works for you, hey. :smiley:

Bread and butter, huh? I listed the combos for future reference, sure… but how and when you decide to use them is up to you. I’m pretty sure you’d know not to just GO FOR THAT whenever you wanted to, though, so okay… MY bread and butter for Wolverine is the air juggle combo. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but juggle hits are mostly what people get in MvC2 (NOBODY STAYS ON THE GROUND IN THIS GAMEnobody ‘good,’ anyway!).

I dunno… maybe we just have different defenitions of “bread and butter.” :lol: Either way, thanks for hitting me up.


#10

totalScrubPower

Good stipulation… the one about her winning. Why else would you try to catch a runaway Storm? Whatever the reason, it’s a bad one. :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay, this one is easy. You don’t. Air throwing Storm may well prove impossible given her vertical air throw range AND the fact that she can control her descent… and trying to out prioritize her when she’s above you is impossible without upward chasing moves (e.g. Cyclops’ sj. hk, Guile’s air Flash Kick, Psylocke’s sj. lk, Shuma-Gorath’s sj. lp, etc…).

What I do is let her go her merry way to the land of who-knows-where and try to catch her with a cross up low short when she lands. Remember to stay confident with Wolverine. Your life may be down, but being impatient will get you killed. His dash is fast enough that no matter where Storm goes, once she super jumps, you’ll be able to horizontally meet her when she lands… and then some. Cross her up and go for an air combo/tick grab.

Whatever you do, remember that keeping her pinned is the key. Monitor your life after hurting her to make sure she’s running for a good reason; STOP doing this once you’ve got the lead. Letting her come to you may prove more advantageousespecially if you’ve got an AAA.

Thanks for asking.


#11

The_Dragoon

Agreed. Things get complex when you’re actually going for a hit.

On that note, when I play Wolverine, I don’t go for hits. What I actually try to do is keep the opponent in a sort of perpetual blockstun… a kind of insured runaway. Why? Because I figure that a character with that kind of low endurance simply can’t afford to let the opponent out and about to do some some of thunderous/god-like combo thataccidentally or on purposeturns him into a grease spot. Since I’m doing that, what actually HITS in the process becomes secondary or incidental to the main goal… making sure the mothafucka don’t move. In short, when I play Wolverine, I don’t go for combos.

He’s faster. His standing jab (s. lp) is faster than Mags’ c. lk and his dash has more sprint (whereas Magneto’s has start-up time).

This I am in total agreement with. That is EXACTLY how you play Wolverine. Get the ball moving, STAY ON THE BALL. Once you allow the opponent to attack, you’re risking death.

Wolverine is in no way a turtle character (meaning: once he’s being attacked, there isn’t much he can do). It’ll seriously take a well placed anti-air assist or reversal to turn the tide in his favor, and that, my friends, is much easier said than done. ESPECIALLY with a disadvantageous team like [Wolverine A/Sentinel Y/Bonerine Y]. I play it only because it challenges me. If you seriously want to use Wolverine, I’d recommend something more like Bonerine Y/Sentinel Y/Cyclops B.

Perfect? I wouldn’t dare to call it that… however, yes. Even great Magneto players can’t keep up once I’m on the ball. But it’s not a question of the characters (Magneto vs. Wolverine) or even the players (Joe Zaza vs. the ‘magneto master’ of your choice). You either rush or get rushed… period.

I agree that you could throw after Fatal Claw… but that combo is terrible! Who WOULDN’T roll out of it? I usually go for air combos instead. You might think I’m trying to be insulting, but I’m just telling it how I see it.

What I go for are air combos ending in up-forward Drill Claw and enter (after flying screen) with either a tick grab (d.s. lp, throw) or covered rush like:

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mk [call Sentinel] -> c. hk XX LP Berserker Barrage[/list]…with Wolverine… or:

[list][*]d.c. lp -> c. lk -> c. mk -> c. hk, call Sentinel, XX HP Berserker Barrage (rapidly tap HP), repeat[/list]…with Bonerine.

The covered rushes are like insured runaway. Especially the Bonerine one… if your opponent didn’t pushblock, it could go on forever (!). However, because opponents do, you’d want to interrupt either rush with HP tick grabs instead. Don’t depend on the damage you get from the grabs, though… it’s like I said before getting hits is incidental to your main goalstay on their ass. Keep an eye on them once you let go from the throw… being wherever they end up (depending on whether they roll) is key. To be sure, you might want to hedge your bet and use the HK throw instead. Either way, you’ll be able to place an attack on them once they get up. Make those attacks count.

Brother, you’re telling me. Never… NEVER… EVER-EVER-EVER put yourself in a situation where you have to block Magneto… or Storm… or Sentinel… ANYONE… okay?

Rush that shit… and if not always then know for the moment that what they got is shit and what you got kills it, period. Otherwise, you’ll cave.

It’s confidence and bravery, son. Confidence-and-bravery.

Hmm… I use the same grab combo… HOWEVER… dahyown heah een So-Cal HAWWWWK-PITOOIE peepl teynd tuh… yuh kno… TEYK HEEYT lahk OLL THU TIME so I never really go for it.

The air combo’s good, too… just omit the jab and second strong to prevent the Drill Claw from scaling and you’ll be fine.

Okay… so at least you agree about the air combos. Still… how in god’s name do you “stick to ground combos” with Wolverine? I mean, you take em when you can, sure… but for the most part, it’s like we both said… damage is incidental. Control the urge to go for ground combos and stick to your target. Otherwise, you’ll have to peel Logan off the wall. :smiley:

Thanks for sharing. You seem to be the only one that’s actually played Wolverine seriously in this thread thus far.


#12

KKCapcom2

Again, I’ll ask that you be more specific. One-on-one strategies are great, sure… but this ain’t a one-on-one game. Wolverine probably beats most top tiers in a simple one-on-one situation, but since that information’z useless, let’s try to get something more practical.

Ask about matches that give you trouble. If it were to be the top 4 (Storm/Sentinel/Cable/Magneto), then ask questions like:

“What would you do about Storm/Cyclops?”
“What would you do about Sentinel/Commando?”
“What would you do about Cable/Doom?”
“What would you do about Magneto/Psylocke?”

You know, shit like that. I’d love to talk about what Wolverine can do about… Sentinel, for instance… but in order to do that, I need to know about the dynamics of the match.

Anyways, thanks for asking.


#13

wolverine with psylocke assist (i know i need her to set up combos for me :frowning: ) against a DECENT cable/doom or cyke.

I do not want to take a risk of losing psylocke.


#14

First off, great thread. It’s nice to see someone so enthusiastic in teaching a character (well, two in this case). I wouldn’t have expected such in depth replies if I had asked a question, so I commend you on that.

I only have one real question, mainly because I don’t use the Wolverines. :sweat:

Throughout reading what you posted, you never mentioned Weapon X, considering it’s his strongest hyper (I believe), why do you choose not to use it?


#15

dont worry people’z, he may not anser QUICK cuz joe is usally busy but just be pacient im sure he’l get to you along with a big ass post of strats and tactics.
also id like to ask a ?
what do you do about sent/tron besides snap in tron :stuck_out_tongue:


#16

I thought you quit Marvel you dirty lying Columbian.

How do I stop colossus from shoulder ramming me? How do I get in on somebody who also has a projectile assist? When am I gonna hang out with your greasy ass again?


#17

'Sup Jose. Still ripping ish up with Double Wolvie, eh? I gotta play you sometime… Anyway…

What are some good strats with using Bonerine [Y] Assist with Sentinel and Magneto? I don’t really understand the whole “Unblockable” concept of Sent/Bonerine [Y] when my Sent dies a horrible death to random peeps spamming on Cykes AAA to knock Sent and Bonerine out of range.

And do any of the Wolvies have damaging combos with Tron Projectile? I can’t seem to do anything that does decent damage with Tron Projectile unless I cross them up ala Magneto/Tron or they’re in the corner…

Random question: How da hell do I beat Bill? That foo just plows through everyone here, though some of us can get random lucky wins on him once in every 20+ win streak he tends to go on…


#18

AHAHAHA bill? wellman? wigger bill? Just use cable/doom or ironman or sent or commando or kobun or…come to think of it…anyone :wink: :wink: :slight_smile:

Now zaza, since you’re smart AND use wolvie, you’ve no doubt discovered the magic of wolvie/wovlie/doom right? Got any super great wolvie/doom stuff you wanna lay on me?

Also, is it true you can’t airthrow in speedup mode? I know you can’t on the ground…but I seem to remember air throwing in speed up while mashing. :lol: gj zaza


#19

Joe Zaza is my hero. In one day he managed to counter my ruby team with a weirdo low-tier after one game, showed the power of team shoto, and defeats full life cable/commando duo with just Zangief. And THEN he uses the wolverine trickery. Too good.


#20

totalScrubPower II

The only practical thing a defensive hit with Psylocke sets up is a d.s. hk into an air combo. If you’re talking the offense, however, we have a different story. I use Wolverine offensively because, without AAAs, he doesn’t have much. However, even with anti-air assists, he can’t cope defensively… here’s why:

My theory’s that you can’t use defensive AAAs successfully unless you psychically (and safely) cover them to thwart a counter attack (which takes range). The only characters that can really do that are Storm, Sentinel and Cable. Wolverine does not have an attack that’ll safely cover his assist from full screen… and even then, the assist (Psylocke) can always be counter-called for free. (Meaning: If you must play Wolverine/Psylocke defensively, the only thing you could do to cover her is super-jump… :bluu: If she’s blocked, she’ll almost certainly get hit.)

If you want to use Psylocke, you have to play Wolverine offensively… calling her while attacking, pausing to let her hit, and coming in to attack right afterwards. Otherwise, she’s useless… and while there are some pretty nice looking Wolverine/Psylocke combos, none of them are really practical in a man-to-man match. You’d almost always follow up with a simple launch (d.s. hk).

Then trust me: DON’T USE HER DEFENSIVELY. Anti-air assists are handy, but will get fucked up in the wrong hands. Wolverine doesn’t have the right ones.

In response to “help with Cable/Doom…”

Initially, Cable/Doom was challenge for me. Most of the time, Woverine can take Cable easily because no matter what AAA he called (Cammy/Commando/Cyclops/Psylocke), Wolverine could merely block and get back up in his face again. With Doom, however, he would be forced to block and stay pinned long enough for Cable to get him back in his “no-zone:” full screen. So what did I do?

Doom assist gets bagged by jump-ins, but normally, the point character would be waiting to launch or anti-air any attempts to do so… do Cable players? NO. I mean, really when you think about it, most Cable players will confindently jump back no matter what assist is called because most assists will pin you either way (whether you’re jumping or dashing in). Doom doesn’t pin players that’re jumping-in. So dodge Cable’s attacks and jump-in on him (my jump-in of choice is j. lk -> j. mp because of j. lk’s priority and j. mp’s juggle [whereas hp or hk knock the opponent down])… you’ll pin him, be able to rush once you’re both grounded and bag Doom in the process.

If the Cable player gets smart and decides to protect Doom with an AA (whether it be his hk, launch, or Psimitar), then simply jump in while calling Psylocke. Regardless of whether he blocks or gets hit by it, you’ll pin Cable and be able to follow up while taking out Doom in the process. Remember: jumping in is the key.

What pisses me off are Cable players that start Cable and pick two assists that keep you guessing/negate each other… for example: Cable B/Iron Man B/Doom B. Since you can’t bag Iron Man assist by jumping in and can’t bag Doom assist via ground, you’ll have to pause and check before attacking, which is, you know… being in check. Sounds crazy, but those extra couple of milliseconds you spend waiting to see what he uses cost you your postition, and can possibly lose the game for you. Basically you’ll be spending most of your time in his “no-zone” in situations like those… another example is Cable/Sentinel/Cyclops. :bluu:

All right, thanks for asking… I’ll get to more questions later.

-PEACE-