MvC2 Low Tier strats and tactics


#1

Figured this might spark up some interesting conversation. This stuff isn’t always talked about really and I’m sure there are probably a few people out there that can contribute that haven’t already.

Here is the thread with all the stuff me and the other low tier players in the mvc2 forum have added I think it’s a nice read:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87568

If you want to discuss low tiers in mvc2, viability, strats, tactics, comboes ect. I think this could be a good thread. It may be better for you to post here even if you are replying to something in the original thread because FGD probably gets alot more readers and thus more conversation may spark.

I will now repost my original thread starter:

Hi I’m Higher-Jin

I know how hard it is to find information on low tier characters in MVC2 and actually for the most part you may have to find out alot of the info out yourself

I wanted to make a low tier thread so all the low tier players can come together and anyone curious enough to try out low tiers can get some good data.

In order to be succesful with low tiers you have to be willing to put more time into them you have to be more technical than most simply because alot of low tier characters have very specific strenghts and tend not to have stuff that is so easily exploited.

A great starting point on learning a low tier character is their stamina and frame data.

Here is the Stamina Ratings

Stamina Tiers: (originally posted by magnetic hail in srk, but he did not make this)

the life bar is 143 points longs. The average jab does about 4-5 damage, and the average fierce does about 12-16. Dan’s suicide move (Otoko Michi) takes off 100 points of damage. From highest to lowest, the stamina tiers run:

75%: (highest) Sentinel
81%: Colossus
87%: Blackheart, Hulk, Juggernaut, Zangief
93%: Captain America, Dr. Doom, Omega Red, Rogue*, Silver Samurai**,
Thanos, Tron Bonne
100% (average stamina) Amingo, Cable, Captain Commando, Charlie,
Cyclops, Gambit, Guile, Iron Man, Jin, M. Bison, Ruby Heart, Ryu,
Sakura, Venom, War Machine
106%: B.B. Hood, Chun-Li, Hayato, Jill, Ken, Magneto, Megaman,
Sabretooth, Spiral, Storm
112%: Cammy, Dan, Dhalsim, Felicia, Iceman, Pyslocke, Shuma Gorath
118%: Marrow, Morrigan, Sonson
125%: Anakaris, Spider-Man, Strider, Wolverine
137%: Akuma, Roll, Servbot, “Bone” Wolverine (aka Bonerine)

  • Rogue takes 46% damage upon receiving “Defense Up” from her Power Drain.

** Silver Samurai takes 117% damage if he uses his lightning power-up once or twice. Should he use his lightning power-up three times in a row, his stamina will return to 93%. Silver Samurai takes 46% damage if he uses his ice power-up once, twice, or three times in a row.Silver Samurai takes 140%! upon using his fire power-up once, 117% after using it twice in a row, and after using it three times in a row, his stamina returns to 93%.

dunno who originally wrote that but i found it lying on my pc, i think from some site…


and here is Joo’s Mvc2 Frame Data

http://www.video-opera.com/features/mvc2/mvc2-joo.php

yes i know it’s stickied.


Here is another piece of information that is important to know:

Mvc2 Special Move “glitch”/property

It really isn’t a glitch but it’s important and it makes special moves work in a way you probably didn’t think they did.

EDIT: Another thing I recently found out, is that you can’t cross up with a assist if they are in blockstun.

Pro Tip: If you can’t get a friend to help you and you can’t move your hands fast enough to test it out or do 2 controls at once

here is a good way to do it with 2 controls:

Do a move with one character, press pause with that control

then get the other control quickly press start on the first control then press start on the second control

now all you have to do is un pause on the control you now have (should be the second control) and do your move , or block or whatever.

This comes in handy because it’s hard to press start on control 1 and then move on to control 2 and input a command at times.


The Low Tier Rankings List (this is just personal opinion if you feel you want to correct me go ahead)

Tier 1

–Top–
Omega Red
Rogue
Dhalsim
Juggernaut (with glitch)
War Machine

–Middle–
Anakaris (ranking may differ on the whole arcade 300% combo thing)
Megaman
Morrigan
Venom
Strider (NO DOOM!)
Silver Samurai
Son Son

–Low–
Colossus
Hulk
Ice Man
Ruby Heart
Cammy

Tier 2

–Top–
Marrow
BB Hood
Bison

–Middle–
Charlie
Wolverines
Spiderman
Jill
Hayato
Chun Li
Shuma
Amingo
Sabretooth
Gambit

–Low–
Captain America
Sakura
Guile (he could be bumped to middle even just for his good match against sentinel)
Akuma
Ken
Ryu
Thanos

Tier 3

–Top–
Zangief
Servbot
Jin

–Low–
Dan
Roll

(A space indicates i think that a character is better than another even though they are in the same category)


Avoiding the Unblockable

Here is a quick list of low tier moves that can attempt to avoid the unblockable (this is for super jump mode)

Felicia: Wall Cling , Dp + K in the air

Mega Man: Wall Jump, Dp + Lp right before he lands on the laser, he’s too short to be hit by the rocket punch on recovery.

Shuma Gorath: Mystic Smash

Wolverines: Dive Kick so they wont’ know when you’ll do a real super jump and it alters your decension, Drill Claw, Wall Jump

Thanos: Knee Dive , Do Air Tackle before the normal jump screen you can block afterwards

Dan: Do light kick kyaku to delay the landing, block afterwards

Guile: Flash Kick

Amingo: Onion Dash might work i’d do it before i get to the normal jump screen.

Ken: Don’t think he has one, Upper cut might work right before the laser I’d suggest Hurricane Kick Over to him before then so he can’t set it up.

Ryu: Hadouken to slow decent if he tries to rocket punch xxx shinkuu

War Machine: Air Dash/Smart Bomb/Fly xxx Unfly

BB Hood: Double Jump, Cock Tail before Laser does too

Son Son: Air Dash, Fierce DP into Stick Super, Air Monkey Projectile

Marrow: Missle Super Stops it Cold, Bone Rang, Double Jump

Silver Samurai: Air Projectile

Ruby Heart: Ball Special, Ball Super.

Sabretooth: Wall Jump

Charlie: Razor Kick before lazer

Akuma: Air Fire Ball, Dive Kick

Zangief: SPD in the air to mess up timing, Lariat before rocket punch might work.

Ice Man: Artic Attack, Ice Beam in the air to mess up timing, Ice Ball

Gambit: Air Kinetic Card to mess up timing

Anakaris: Air Curse to mess up timing , Coffins, Air Dash to mess up timing

Hayato: Diving Sword right before lazer should work, diving sword just to mix up timing

Jin: Dive Kick MIGHT work doubtful

Captain America: Shield Slash to mess up timing, Double Jump

Spider Man: Max Spider, Web Dash, Air FB to mess up timing, Wall Jump

Juggernaut: Splash might work

Bison HP Teleport should work, Scissor Kick, Flight mode/Fly xx Unfly

Morrigan: Upward Air Dash, Air FB to mess up timing, Dive

Sakura: Air Fire Ball To mess up timing, desperation Dashing Uppercut before laser

Venom: Hp venom Fang, Web Swing

Jill: Tackle before normal jump screen (she takes a while to recover but she does eventually)

Hulk: Air HP to mess up timing

Cammy: Double jump, Desperation HK cannon drill before lazer

Strider: Air Dp+ Punch move, Horizontal qcf+ attack move, double jump, wall jump

Rogue: Air Dash, maybe dive kick

Servbot/Roll: air fireball to delay

Chun: Lighning kicks to delay, triple jump, wall jump, air dash

Omega: qcf+ attack move, air dash foward before lazer press back before he cancels into rocket punch.


UPDATE:

Throw Mashing: This is what Zaza told me in his wolverine thread

Quote:
ONE of these days I’ll get back to this thread properly. Until then, I’ll answer Higher-Jin.

Usually, mashing (which SHOULD be called ‘wiggling’) is less in the buttons and more in the stick. This would be useful if everyone were southpaws, but since most people are right handed, they put more emphasis on the buttons.

When it comes to wiggling, “make the wood clack” is what I usually say (meaning: wiggle it fast and hard enough to knock the wood around the joystick). That’s step one.

Step two is learning to respect a stick’s neutral position. People that play P-groove or 3S know what I’m talking about here. You can’t parry instantly by going from block to forward. Well, you can… but it requires a smooth motion from back-to-neutral-to-forward. An easier way is to operate in neutral. Most people operate their defense from the back or down-back position.

All in all, if you want to become a parry fiend (or are preparing to parry), then stay keen and watch for what’s coming. Operate your defense from neutral to get them off steadily.

WHAT’S ALL THIS GOT TO DO WITH MARVEL, JOE??

Step two is: instead of making the wood clack (don’t try to skip step one… make the wood clack first!), respect neutral and wiggle that way. The CPU will respond to the movements quicker if you wiggle with it in mind. In other words, step two is to NOT make the wood clack.

Now the BUTTONS are a different story. I have a theory about the buttons that works whenever I care to test it, but I rarely do. The only useful and systematic way to accelerate mashing with the buttons is a 'lil thing I call “rotation.”

Take the four buttons your point attacks with. Start at LP and rotate clockwise (from LP to HP to HK to LK back to LP again). This can be done with your index (LP) to middle (HP) to ring (HK) to thumb (LK). One you’re in that position, you can actually rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise. But it’s what works best, depending on how fast you get rotations.

OF COURSE you can learn to “palm” the method and OF COURSE you can TRY to skip a button to increase rotation speed… all I’m trying to point out is that perhaps Capcom intended for its CPU to process the phenomena (which is actually our theory) of “random mashing” this way. I’ve always been about precision when it comes to fighting games… this is the most precise I’ve gotten when it comes down to it.

Don’t take all this to the bank and expect me to be #1 MASHA!! It takes energy. Like I said before: sometimes I can do it well (damn well) and sometimes I can’t. So :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, hope that helped.


UPDATE!

Strategy for certain fireball characters and their assists

Viscant talked about this a long while ago so I should talk about this with you guys. He used the examples of bison and marrow. He talked about for example how bison would do his hcb+hp fireball and if they attacked him he could pushblock them into the exploding ball. He also recently said that he would use marrow’s bonerang assist with sent and push block jump-in/square jumps/air attacks into it and get a free combo off of it.

Obviously this can be applied to more than just marrow and bison. He also mentioned charlie does something similar with his sonic boom but it applies to most characters with a slow fireball and it might be possible to be able to combo something off of it when combined with a assist. Basically this strategy should be experimented with if you are playing a character that has a fast recovering fireball or one that stays on the screen after he recovers. It’s probably not even limited to that and it can be probably applied in other ways aswell.

Other great ways to use it probably involve stuff like amingo’s projectiles that are unblockable. With Jill you can probably call a LK zombie and pushblock into it thus giving you a free combo. Also another thing that comes to mind is perhaps pushblocking into Ruby Heart’s sublimination since she recovers well and possibly her ghost if they avoid it. There are alot of possibilities with this strategy which I haven’t really seen documented. I just wanted to let you guys know.

That about does it.

Post up about specific character and i’ll prolly share any info i know and hopefully some people who play those characters will come in and post some strats aswell.

I might do character specific strats myself.

thanks for reading hope some peeps post up


#2

This is the best damn breakdown of low tear ever.

For a person like myself that uses Akuma, Spiral, and Sent, it’s a nice break down of low tier’s. I think Spiral and Sent are a very underrated combo. I also found out Guile isn’t just good against Sent but is very effect against Iron Man and Doom. It’s alot faster than people give him credit for.


#3

nice way of showing the low tiers, btw ruby heart is high mid tier in the over all ranks so there is no way she is under omega red.


#4

co-sign this shit. I feel like Justin K :tup:


#5

If you are using a Shoto character, Ken or Akuma which has
unreliable launches, is short range, and has horrible priority,
to use the Hurricane glitch as your main strategy,
unless your opponent is a keep-away shooter or any characters
such as Sentinel that can throw down long range
attacks floating in the air,
using a character with capture assist, especially Thanos and
spider-man, seems like a good deal.
One good example would be a team with Ken or Akuma, Thanos as
a capure assist, and the last choice as you wish.
So whenever the bubble captures the opponent, your turtle-walking
Shoto characters will be able to take all the time to do the
Hurricane glitch which is so easy and effective once you get
a chance to perform it.


#6

why do you hate on guile so much - how is he worse than charlie? wtfwtfwtwfwtwfwtflolz.

sonic boom hits storm through hailstorm - ALWAYS
air flashkicks own runaway storm
crouching fierce is AWESOME

with storm projectile, you can NOT roll after you get roundhouse air thrown, because her projectile knocks you back up, which sets up unescapable OTG combos.

He is a great team player too, works well with top tiers… ok im bad with the names of supers so bear with me
sonic hurricane DHCs into sentinels qcf + 2 punch super
DHCs into hailstorm (and lightning storm DHCs easily into hurricane see?)
DHCs into commando’s qcf + 2 kick super

and it DHCs into pretty much damn near anything else

A neat trick -
If sentinel does HYPER SENTINEL FORCE on you
IMMEDIATELY do your flashkick super
and DHC into cyclops qcf + 2 punch super

FLASHKICK SUPER has invincibility frames on startup which lends for great DHC tricks

Tiger knee qcf + 2 kick super can actually punish tons of shit, including proton cannon - also with its fast startup it can lend to DHC tricks.

for example, douchebag does something stupid. do the air super, and DHC into a hailstorm. OWNED

air flashkick is like a double jump - but ten million times awesomer

i like playing guile/storm/capcom and guile/sent/cyke

oh yes and sonic boom is the best projectile EVER. just throw one of those suckers out, wave dash behind it, do some pressure strings, maybe throw out a storm or sent projectile assist, and then throw out another boom. over n over pressure that shit down

in conclusion, charlie is a gay anime fag who must die horribly. guile on the other hand is an all american hero

kthx


#7

This is just IMO i’m glad you brought it up though so we can discuss it, if you still disagree feel free to bring up your points. Firstly, Charlie has kick throw which leads to a free combo anywhere in the screen while guile has no mix up game. Charlie might be able to use his crescent kick to do some type of mix up by making it hard to tell which side he’ll land on. He also has sweep, super jump cancel crescent kick, launch. On top of that he also has almost everything guile has except for:

  • Good AAA (charlie’s misses too much on below average height crouching characters)

  • Ghetto Double Jump air flash kick

  • j. rh that’s good against sent

I think it’s mainly that charlie has a way to land a combo (kick throw) while guile doesn’t really have a high low game. Not saying that charlie is landing throws left and right but it’s still a viable option and he also has a zoning game just as good as guile’s. Guile can keep you in block stun but he can’t really do any more chip than charlie can and he also can’t use his supers for chip even with a set up from a assist (sonic hurricane gets pushblocked and punished hardcore and you have to dhc out of kick super or die). Charlie can at least set up his sonic break super with a assist and mash out all 12 hits for ok chip and then dash after it and do it over and over (outside of some tricky guard cancelling they can’t really get out of it) and call doom for example for some decent chip.

Guile doesn’t have too many options IMO charlie has alot of what he has and the kick throw that gives his 60 damage midscreen and 80+ damage with a chance to reset and do 100% in the corner, and chip (crescent kick+chippy assist pressure, sonic break, plus the sonic boom shenanigans guile has but charlie’s sonic boom is slower). Maybe you can put guile a tier higher just for his assist and good match against sent alone but I still think charlie is a overall better character.

This brings up my next point which was brought up in the thread:

Some people may value assists and such higher than others so some rankings may differ which is why later on in the thread we started doing character ratings in the thread which rated the individual aspects (assists, comboability, stamina ect.) and let people decide how good a char is.

edit: I forgot that charlie also has a command overhead (that has good range too) which is something guile doesn’t have. With a assist he can at least try to do a mix up with that and combo off of it.

edit2: Here’s something else i just found out:

Charlie can follow up his crossfire blitz in the corner and it’s unrollable and I think it’s unmashable because it doesn’t create pseudo flying screen (you can’t launch and go up and continue the combo)

Well anyways that means he gets a free mix up, just do c. lk, standing mp afterwards and do a overhead+ assist or a kick throw for probably near 100%.


#8

oh, wow dude good thread silver samurai has the best defense in the game when iced up and he can’t be thrown by MOST people while crouching. umm I’ll probably add something later, oh bbhood hulk jugg take out teams that rely on assist heavily. (duh)


#9

^ Try icing Sam up, and then giving him Amingo yellow fruit “defense up!”. I could swear a landed AHVB only did about 10% or so…

Glitched Jugg with Ruby red gem “power up!” has a pretty dramatic effect, too. Only lasts about 4 seconds per assist, though.

[EDIT: Obscure and near-useless; yes, I know.]


#10

Sabretooth is to high just because HJ plays him, and Guile has a high low game, his problem is damage and getting inside consistently.


#11

I think Megaman should be in the high class part on your list HJ.:smile:

Anyways with Sakura using J.HK, LK Senpu Kyaku on jump ins helps in racking up additional damage during a jump in.

Venom can combo into his Venom Web on all non-heavy characters (Sent, Juggs, BH) from the first hit of his LK Venom Rush. Kinda tricky tough.:razzy:

Venom’s LP Venom Fang can’t be punished on block PERIOD!!! :tup:


#12

damn this niggas got too much time on his hands. did i even see you at the regionals?


#13

what doesnt work with hailstorm?

hell yeah!.. that shit is so much better than doom rocks and spiral’s swords… it beats out anything cable can do… wait… puts down the crack pipe … sorry about that.

guile wears tight pants and has shitty tats… charlie has cool glasses and cargos. and dont you know… terry schiavo is the all american hero… everyone knows her drool assist beats his anti-air cleanly.

… no hard feelings… imo guile is generic as hell., thats all. :karate:


#14

Sakura should be bumped up, because if she has a decent battery (I use Rogue personally) the 3 meter requirement for the transformation isn’t that bad. You can then teleport through most of the “dominating” supers (one well-timed teleport will make only one hailstorm rock hit/block you, two are needed to go through HSF). Sakura also has the small but very dangerous opportunity to infinite a grounded Sentinel, and insane damage potential with Tron Bonne. It takes work, but she CAN be worth the character slot if you put enough effort in.


#15

word. Didn’t you see my Ruby video HJ? :confused: :bluu: haha… Ruby can help your team out a lot. :tup: And if you want to see what she can do solo watch Magnetro’s video.

LMAO :rofl: :lol: :clap:


#16

Regular Sakura is definately oodles better than Dark Sakura, practically speaking. 3 levels is not worth what Dark Sakura has to offer. :tdown:


#17

Hmm I disagree since you can do her fireball super off a lp/cr.lk etc. You can also teleport forever without being hit. oH, and her fireball super does decent chip, and yes has amasing potential with tron. and her jumping in hk is ridiculous (it beats Doom’s launcher) but reg has that but can’t follow up with so much damage.


#18

I agree to this.
3 Levels is asking too many. If the transformation can be done
with 1 level, it sounds reasonable.
Think about what you can do with 3 levels with Cable or other
characters with decent HCs.


#19

Lemme just reply that the teleport thing is just theory fighter. I’ve seen many Dark Sak matches and when they teleport they can only keep it up for 3-5 reps before they mess up and usually get caught because it’s hard to track 0 startup and recovery into itself without appearing out of the teleport.

Secondly you won’t be building meter to do those “awesome combos” because you’ll most likely be dead or near death by then when a big 4 guy rushes you down 'cause you just spent 3 to do the transformation. Trust me I’ve been playing Sak for 5 years now and it took me a good year and a half to figure out Dark Sak was absolute BS unless it’s theory fighter. :pleased:


#20

He got right on the money. You just can’t afford all that luxury
of time and space to build 3 meter just to see some
tanned version of the same damn girl. You could still do
a lot more and better stuffs to match with your opponent in
the regular state.