MVCI Bar and Lounge: Maximum Carnage Xmas Special


I’m asking what do you think the whole goal of this game was? Was it all for making an actual successor… a an actual *new installment to a 20+ year hit product that has a 20+ year old community?


That’s absurd and tantamount to exactly one of the reasons MvCi got a rough deal.

InJus2 is an objectively, technically inferior game. That you would give it a place in a TOURNY based on some kind of ‘love’ standard is ridiculous. Pathologically ridiculous.


It was for what ever game is for. Making money under the circumstances. No Xmen, low budget allotted, caving in to constant social media crying for a new Marvel. Not too much more complicated than that as far as the basics. Lot of underlying stuff, but I would say the biggest thing is Capcom and Marvel knowing that social media was literally dying for a new Marvel and they just made a quick jump with a lack of resources.


I’d argue that DBZF is a mechanically inferior game to a lot of them out there but that game is the number one game in the FGC right now. If I wanted to take your route, Guilty Gear should have been the last game on Sunday, not SF5. UNIST should have gotten the main stage as well.

My point in bringing up Injustice, a game I don’t even like, is that it at least did many things right for the masses and its fan base. Sure, the game blows, but NRS supports it. The community comes out to play it. Mr. Wizard’s exact words during the reveal in regards to Infinite was, “I don’t think people are playing it. We have to support games that people actually play.” And people weren’t playing it for reasons I’ve already stated. It’s simple. You get a spot on the main stage IF you deserve it.


Number #1 game? Based on what? SFV has more entrants,viewers, and gets top spot on every event. I’m curious as to why you believe SFV isn’t? The numbers prove SFV is still top game, not sure where you think it’s not.


Could have sworn DBZF had more viewers and entrants at EVO than SF5. Haven’t been keeping track of the two these recent months though.


SFV vanilla wasn’t doing good in launch date sale but not the time after MVCi release. SFV was doing great right now.


Could argue that SFV would have surpassed twitch DBFZ twitch numbers if they didn’t have that long pause before SFV got set up. With that said SFV was streamed at multiple places including YouTube so numbers could be a bit more all over the place than we know.

I don’t watch DBFZ at all because I can’t stand it, but I imagine their average top numbers are near or surpass SFV’s (but not by a huge margin to have a pissing contest over).


Let me clear up something for you so you’ll be more informed, evo is the only event where dbz had more entrants and not by too many, in fact for being its first year at Evo it didn’t even have sfv’s SECOND years entrants. Also the spike in viewers at Evo where only because SFV was at 4 in the morning. Every other event before and after SFV has killed dbz in both entrants and viewers, and not to mention SFV still had more average total viewers at Evo anyways lol. People can “pretend” SFV is not king anymore but as NUMBERS have proven and still prove it’s still the most popular fighter out there. Also if a timely circumstance is all dbz fans want to remember instead of the other 20 events which SFV has surpassed dbz then that’s called denial.


I’d have to see some sort of analytics that SF5 has been killing DBZF in the manner you mention before taking anything you say at face value.

Not sure if its really relevant anyways. This wasn’t about SF5. Whether it’s first or second doesn’t matter in the scope of Infinite. If you want to defend your baby that’s SF5 at every waking opportunity that someone doesn’t mention it the way you like, go take your efforts to /r kappa or something, Maravilla.


Lmao just search for all past events numbers, you’re the one calling one “the top” game without having a clue what you’re talking about then I assume. It matters because you’re giving out wrong, misinformed information to other members here, don’t get upset because I checked you, or because SFV still the top game, play what you like.


that ij2 made it still haunts you XD
marvel was there, as a side tourney…people could go to that event and play, a few even did.


DBFZ’s combat engine is more functional than people seem to understand. It’s this age old conflation of game design and game function.


That combat engine is the same thing, every game, for almost every character. Relentless offensive pressure to score a knockdown into obnoxious 50/50 oki corner setups. And I’m someone who loves Melty Blood, a game that is very high octane, high pressure, heavy oki, etc. But with DBFZ, more or less, everyone has the same exact gameplan almost to the T. The main complaint you see floating around in regards to the game is that it feels same-sy. But I can at least enjoy playing it from time to time. Watching it is another story.


Do you think that one of the factors is that they did not take in complete consideration what the target audience was? Every business does something for money, but most business make a smart strategy on how to make that money, especially when it’s a new installment that has a history of followers and consumers.

For example, you said “no x-men”. Why would they not put the x-men, why did they rush the game out as if they had to have this released before *something comes out?

This is no way a new project; they’ve done this for more than 20+ years… why now did they make these bad decisions/errors… what was this all for? I’m not striking an argument, i just want to see answers from people here.


The general pace and meta of a game =/= Combat Mechanics

Unless you wanna conclude Chess, potentially the most competitive, balanced, and ever evolving board game in human history; a repetitively stale game.

If so, have at it.

(And no, I’m not saying DBFZ is equivocal to Chess, I’m illustrating the distinction between meta and game design - they are not the same. Some correlation, yes, but not the same. And for that matter I repeat that design and function ain’t the same either.)


You bring up a very interesting business model, zatalcon1. However, I wish it were as simple as saying, "Capcom did this because of X, Y, and Z’. Who KNOWS why they left out X-Men. Everyone was speculating that it was because of Marvel’s lack of ownership of the series, but wasn’t that immediately debunked to be the case?

The next possible answer could be that Marvel is simply putting in their full efforts towards setting up the MCU within all forms of media they’re involved in. The buyout didn’t happen yet and Marvel has been stern in their efforts to blot out any mention of X-Men and the Fantastic Four. And knowing Marvel’s hand in versus games as we’ve heard from the stories with MvC3 and their involvement, they’re stern on what gets in. Clearly that didn’t work since casuals and veterans were clamoring for X-men.

But Capcom is at fault here too. No one in their right mind would release graphics like these and think it looked fine. Like I said before, the gameplay is fine. I enjoy playing the game for what it is. Its the other stuff that’s bad. Capcom probably thought that it’d be enough to get by. We’ve seen Capcom make these mistakes before so I wouldn’t put it past them.


The combat mechanics of the game are largely unimaginative for an Arcsys fighter.
-Homing dash a la Arcana Heart
-Magic series
-Projectile button.
-Sparking Blast aka burst

Functional? Sure. Varied? Absolutely not, which is why I don’t like your Chess example. Chess ISN’T repetitively stale because while the functions and basics of chess remained the same for hundreds of years, the way to play the game hasn’t. There are many different ways to play the game. DBFZ since it’s been out has been the same. The only thing that has changed have been which characters you see in rotation because…YOU GUESSED IT. Said characters fit the mold for the same offensive rushdown nature the game caters to.

Being functional isn’t enough, is my point.


Oh yes. It surely wasn’t the lack of ownership because we all know that Marvel has rights to the X-men when it comes to anything that isn’t movies (or theme parks in the east coast, which is all owned by Universal) so we know it isn’t because of licenses.

Your second paragraph is the answer I see as the most logical. It was all for setting up the MCU. The theme of this game, it’s release date, and the roster was all for this Infinity war movie. We’ve already had this told to us back in MVC3 in where Capcom really had to negotiate for X-men characters and this was before the MCU evolved to what it is now. So the game was likely given a deadline that was just impossible to produce at a quality that is deserved for a game of this caliber and legacy which is why we had these obvious problems of the game looking like it wasn’t finished.

In order for an MVC4 to be successful it has to be made in the “realm” of the target audience. MVCI was a game made as a flier for the MCU and this is something that the “audience” of this game had problems with. Max articulated it perfectly.

This has been my entire argument, especially that long ass argument with *Special Needs Kid who is either a complete troll who intentionally misrepresented other peoples arguments to help build his own point or is that much of idiot who can’t comprehend what he reads at a 2nd grade level. For example, i made a post about that tweet link from Devil Jin in where some dude was asking capcom about this game via twitter, the special needs kid then replies “so you are spamming capcom’s twitter” and being the dumb ass that he is, quotes several posts about the responses people gave when I was suggesting a petition - not knowing that he is shitting all over the whole blogs of stupid he posted.


I agree 100%. Except the part about the Special Needs Kid. I don’t want to get caught up in some heat. >.>