MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion


#2095

Ghost Rider has the range to just throw shit out and grounded opponents have to deal with it. His problem is that he can’t control airspace for shit, meaning a lot of higher mobility types can just waltz around him until they land a hit.

You can run him as a solid support, but your point has to have options against the things Ghost Rider can’t handle.


#2096

Yeah Ghost Rider is a character you run on support. His whip super creates some dumb mix ups for like 1 meter. It’s basically a ghetto THC.

Just of course ultimately what will steer everyone away from playing Ghost Rider is that if he’s by himself you’re much worse off than other supports like Sigma, Strange, Winter Solider or Monster Hunter who can very much fight for themselves better.


#2097

True, he has real strengths versus certain characters time stone increases his viability a lot. (I actually think Ghost Rider is pretty good against say FireBrand for example.
The thing is in a tournament situation who wants to be stuck with Ghost Rider and Time Stone against teams that rock his world?


#2098

Alright guys I’ve been gone for a bit(went to Disney world, it was magical) so I haven’t had any time to record and edit videos but I do have the need to dump some tech. I’ll probably do some videos of this stuff but for now I just need to get it written down, you know? I guess I’ll just break it down by characters and overall mechanics…

Chun Li- Where are the players abusing standing resets with this character? It’s ridiculous. She has meaty high/low mixups and left/right mixups after establishing advantage after literally any normal on an opponent with feet on the ground. All you have to do is connect, say, ultrons 236LP or winter soldiers 236LK on a standing opponent and they’re in reset city. Obviously there’s escape options but I feel like chun players aren’t even considering it. Also, this is why I think she’s currently the best character during time storm: https://mobile.twitter.com/coinjamtv/status/953051680358232064
This is obviously much slower than optimal execution because those 5HP’s should be invisible for proper kara legs. But any normal>5HP~236LK(1)>dash>normal should be pushblock proof and a true block string. Her pressure game is just too oppressive during time storm so you’ll need to have a good handle on autoblocking. Which brings me to the next one.

Autoblock- what the hell? This stuff has been around since the first month of the game and no one seems to have really mastered it yet. Using Chun Li’s jc pressure as an example, one pushblock pattern covers most of her potential options. https://mobile.twitter.com/coinjamtv/status/953746819422531584
This should be mandatory.

Winter soldier- I just bought this dude and started training him up yesterday. He’s already my favorite character, maybe in any fighting game. You can double dash out of arm shield without crouch canceling, it’s weird and I want to inspect that more. Jump canceled arm shield is serious stuff. A quick up flick will cancel the shield and still leave you standing without actually activating the jump. 282LP~LK gives you stationary, shielded pistol shots canceled into itself. You can tk stuff out of it too. This means jc stone surge works out of shield which gives you some preeeetty nice options. But you know I’m gonna use time stone so here’s what I know so far. At 50% storm, any bullet that connects should convert to at least 8k damage. https://mobile.twitter.com/coinjamtv/status/956664365419294720
This also works around 3/4 screen from a j.236LK>dash~5HK>236LP>storm for crouching opponents. His pressure game is so-so in time storm. Overhead during shield will combo into itself when first hit canceled and negate pushblock but loses hard to perfect pushblock. Of course you can dash cancel into a plinked normal but it’s still not a true block string. I dunno I still gotta see if the jc properties of shield can be abused during storm.

Plinking dashes- I hear a lot of people upset that plink dashes aren’t in the game anymore but you should still be plinking into and out of dashes. Plinking out of dashes gives some characters(like striders 5HP and 2LK, winter soldiers 5HK) ridiculously long range, as well as sliding command normals. Plinking into dashes abuses proximity guard properties by using the first few frames of a heavy normal before it’s canceled into dash to activate the opponents guard if they happen to be holding back. This can eat inputs and severely limit backdash distance. You can even crouch cancel early with characters that have high startup dash frames for stationary guard checks. This should also be mandatory.

Strider- I’m 100% convinced Strider/Time is a hard counter to raccoon/space. This is important because pretty much every tournament winning team is based around that shell. I’ve already posted that gif against Jedah/space but any grounded time surge will automatically activate raccoon traps as you pass through them. Time not only escapes bad situations but can deny them as well. Strider/Time specifically is the best at shutting down raccoon because panther>cancel trades with traps, satellite completely eats both traps in one launch while also retaining durability to hit raccoon, and orbs+time surge means you just don’t have to give a fuck. Throw in vajra~tag and it’s a nightmare.

Ultron- this dude was hyped up as a magneto function but I actually think he’s more of a storm. Plinking LP out of air dash makes him one of the most mobile characters in the game. This means putting him at super jump height with an extra air dash up into flight makes him verrrry slippery. His LK drone covers his feet pretty well which lets him whiff surge to build storm for little risk. 3 up dashes using the LP plink let’s him bust through the upper ceiling for added safety. Each whiffed surge is 1% storm but if you’re doing 3-4 surges every time it adds up. Plus with characters like winter soldier who can do 8k off a single bullet at 50% storm, that shits valuable.

Anyways that’s all I’ve got for now. I don’t know that many characters so I’d love to hear more about others.

Winter soldier/Strider/Time is my new team.


#2099

Niiiiice, btw, saw something really wierd, but may be a PC hack. Another Monster Hunter charged for her swing, it chimed, she didn’t swing and he continued moving around in hyper armor mode for a couple of moves. (He was glowing and shit still)

Maybe a random glitch but it had me all WTF gimme some of that!


#2100

Do you think it could have been a visual glitch due to delay? I really wish they would give us a trial period for dlc characters. Monster hunter is one of those I’d rather try before I buy.


#2101

New Tier List:

  1. Dante
  2. Zero
  3. Nova
  4. Jedah
  5. Morrigan
  6. Rocket
  7. Hawkeye
  8. Dorm
  9. Chun
  10. Spiderman

#2102

Is that in order of strength?

Dante top tier nothing new. He’s more beatable than he was before, but still basically a top point and a top support. Zero, Nova, Jedah all make sense. Morrigan is finally being shown to be powerful in a game where only certain characters have quick get off me options or invincible super. She has a psuedo DP to beat out sloppy offense and one of the best invincible levels 1s to slow the game down with. She basically has the closest to Ultron’s pre patch j.HP. Very difficult to AA and one touch puts you in a combo and can be repeated regularly until you are hit. Even though she’s mainly a point character, her tools are also very good support for another character and astral vision is still really good, if in different ways from MVC3.

Rocket makes sense. Like Dante one of the best characters that duo as top point and top support. Doesn’t have an invincible DP but has the best preemptive defensive options in the game. Once you set up shop people can’t just fish for stray hits and get a guaranteed combo anymore. Which is probably why Hawkeye is coming up as he’s one of the few characters that can fish into full combos against him from a range where he doesn’t have to deal with traps. Everyone else has to deactivate the traps or force themselves into a situation where they’ll get hit for trying to hit him.

Hawkeye, Dorm, Chun and Spiderman are all solid. Dorm is still pretty much high to top tier despite the crying a few Dorm players probably did. Hawkeye is probably close to top 5 really now. Other than not having super oppressive mix up or an invincible DP, he may have the best overall set of assists in the game. Up arrows tag makes everyone better especially if they have a port. Can easily convert arrows into full combos while setting up a field of frame advantage for another character to tag into and start offense should he not immediately land a hit. No instant chicken blocking means he basically has a full screen mix up if the opponent isn’t patient to pick their spots to jump. Reflecting is tough vs him just because of the speed he can fire shit with and messing up a reflect means full screen combo. Chun and Spiderman are good, but probably arguable for top 10.

I would say Strider is pretty much a shoe in for top 10 at this point. Has about the best mobility in the game, air invincible super if you try to challenge him in the air, vajra tag about the best assist in the game and he actually hurts now so you can’t just weather the storm vs him like in 3. Ouroboros is strong in a new way now that it’s just an extremely high durable set or projectiles surrounding him that let him force his way into mix up. Like a weaker spiral swords basically. If you dont have an invincible super or coon trap super on the ground he can get in nearly for free with Ouro.


#2103

Mostly agree, though not necessarily in the same order.
And even despite his falloff, I still think Ultron deserves to be in top 8.

Also, Firebrand, Gamora, Strider, and Strange are all contenders for the 9/10 spots.


#2104

I knew I forgot someone, I’d shoe in both Strider and Ultron likely. The order is rough. I’d say that Gamora, Strange and Firebrand are very close and arguable for the 9/10 spots along with Spider and Chun.

New Tier List:

  1. Dante
  2. Zero
  3. Nova
  4. Jedah
  5. Morrigan
  6. Rocket
  7. Hawkeye
  8. Strider
  9. Dorm
  10. Ultron

I feel Ultron is probably the fairest out of the bunch and can be fought easier by the rest of the cast.


#2105

Don’t know about Morrigan and Hawkeye.

Ultron and Gamora are stronger than those two.

Thanos too.


#2106

Hawkeye has been winning a lot lately he destroys half the cast with just zoning and space stone. Ultron is good and he can help set up shop so I can see him being top ten. I find Gamora abit overrated. Morrigan is underrated, has great tools to reset neutral, a good mix up game. Her Finishing shower also trades with a lot hypers in the her teams favor. Although I am most likely biased since I main Morrigan. Idk why you think Thanos is better than her I would like to hear your reasoning.

I agree that Ultron is the fairest of the top ten, but I feel if you are going to add Strider and Ultron you should of kicked Dormammu out instead of Chuns. He is very good, but I find that he is not so dominate to be in top 10 especially if his partner dies. While Chuns is just crazy fast and shuts people down way to quick.


#2107

I can’t ignore Dorm with the right partner though, he’s basically guaranteed spells if he has ANY space in this game. Chun is pretty stupid but honestly I find navigating Chun less stifling because she’s not as good at controlling space. While stupid fast, there’s something about her approach that even a bum like me can weather to a degree and honestly when I weigh her vs the rest of the top I see Dorm doing better against them with the right support. It’s definitely arguable though.


#2108

Can Hawkeye even fight Dante?


#2109

from watching Duel Kevin against other Dante players in recent Tournaments I would guess the match up is either in Dante’s favor 6-4 or 5-5.


#2110

He should be able to fight Dante and worst case scenario if you’re playing Hawkeye you have him teamed up with someone who can fight Dante.

Once you get space I should imagine Hawkeye does alright vs Dante as because Dante’s buttons are slow as fuck and his gun super got nerfed, he can’t just blow through Hawkeye’s neutral as easily. Which is why a team like Hawkeye/Coon is so strong as Coon can lay down shit near Hawkeye so if Dante even gets close he can’t just land a stray hit and get going.


#2111

Thanos has the Armor Lunge Punch which does great wall carry, two very usable teleports, the best non super command grab with followups, HK Shield, inescapable frame traps, a great projectile and good movement for a big body plus big damage.

Zoners can’t get too comfortable with Thanos because of ports, his projectile and the Shield and if they get sloppy, they get punished with Straight punch into wall combo.

Gamora ain’t overrated at all. She is good and can fight both Morrigan and Hawkeye straight up.

Mind you, both Hawkeye and Morrigan are good as in High Tier good. They proven that they excel and don’t belong in the Mid pack but Top 10? That’s a stretch and a big one.


#2112

People really have to stop using damage as a reason why someone is good in this game. Thanos imo has an easy port to deal with.
I guess I’ll have to wait to see the epic Thanos in tournament.


#2113

I think Thanos is perfectly viable, and while he’s definitely the best of the Easy Damage Big Guy Club (along with Sigma and Venom), none of them are anywhere near top 10.
They don’t have enough dirty tricks or mixup potential to fit in with that upper tier. Honestly I have a hard time even putting them in top 20.

He’s not bad by any stretch. There’s just better options.


#2114

Pretty close to the way I feel about him. There’s just nothing he does that makes me fear him most of the time. His standing jab is deceptively fast though
which is one of the only reasons why I consider him one of the best of the big men for easy damage. That being said most of the other big body types I’d say
can give him a run for his money. Like Thor, heck even Monster Hunter and Nemesis.