MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion


#1981

So what are the conditions? You must activate the glitch and build up enough hutstun to cause them to fall out while in a frozen or crumple state?


#1982

The only real condition is hitting the opponent from behind while they are still in a grounded state.

You cannnot block lows while turning around so you end the combo with something quick xx slowish standing attack + tag into low. The tag into low will lead into the unblockable while the slowish standing attack is there to catch anyone trying to upback (for example I end my combo with s.lp with dante then s.hk+tag)

This needs to be patched ASAP


#1983

Has anyone tried blocking in the opposite direction lol


#1984

Yup, doesn’t work. The unblockable will shrink the viable team selection in a 2 person game. Fuck adapting, I’m on that fix this shit train.


#1985

I planned on taking a break from games til monster Hunter and dbfz came out. Guess I have to go back to the lab with cap. Have some ideas for the unblockable


#1986

Yeah after testing this is pretty broken. The only thing you could try to do is try to shake out of the million carats ice freeze, but you can’t start shaking until the first bounce and that doesn’t leave you enough time to shake out. If they meaty you with s.LP after the first bounce you have to take the set up.

Which leaves you with counter switching out after they tag as the only initial option out. Which isn’t terrible as since they just tagged they can’t tag to counter your counter switch. Which should give you enough breathing room to get out. If you have space storm or any other oppressive neutral storm ready you can pop that and then go HAM.

But long story short unless you kill Dante or his partner, you’re pretty fucked other than counter switch until they patch.

If it’s like the Spiderman Infinite, no one will bother using it because lazy and or they know it’s going away. Which was crazy because you couldn’t even counter switch escape that. It was 100 percent escape proof.


#1987

Ditto on the patch subject, they designed the game with no unblockables in mind so that’s the way it should stay. Usually I’d say let things rock and that unintended things are good things, but it be better the game be reset orientated than unblockable orientated, having to rely on invincibility that’s already been nerfed is just dumb.


#1988

Yeah once this gets patched you still really have no business trying to get 1st at a tournament with a team that doesn’t have invincibility. The hard to blockable stuff is still cheap as fuck and barring some tech that we don’t know about, is not viable to block all day with teams like Ultron/Megaman or even a high tier team like Dante/Dorm. Even Richard Nguyen spoke about how Dante/Dorm is very risky in a tournament because you have to hold every button/special move into tag with no way out other than counter switch or storm activate.

Teams completely built around set play like Jedah/Dante and Ultron/Dorm are forced to use space stone to pop storm and survive, but that’s only so good when you have to burn something you need for something more guaranteed just to escape getting hit. You can easily be forced to pop a bad space storm with your back to the corner and then all you have is mash level 3 to escape being locked down in your own box. 50 percent storm barely gives you enough time to add any hits in before a level 3 so you have to act quick on any hit.

Ideally your point character or at least your support character needs something invincible in order to survive the meta in the next months to a year and further. Luckily all of the DLC characters except Sigma have invinicble level ones and Mon Hun has her hyper armor tag BS.


#1989

Is black widows d,d +p taser invincible?


#1990

No. Ryu, Captain America, Chris and Haggar are the only characters with invincible special moves. I believe Chris has to go into prone stance to use his (shoulder attack) so it’s not truly a frame 1 reverse to use all the time. The way things are going it doesn’t look like they plan to add any DLC characters that have invincible specials for a while.

Just her grab super that’s invincible and is pretty cheap because you can use it in the ground or air. It grabs immediately after freeze if she’s near point blank, so if you didn’t mash something before they freeze you’re caught.


#1991

You somehow forgot Zero in that list.


#1992

Yeah that’s true. That’s why he’s top tier. I was counting more so stuff that’s invincible all the way until first active frames. Zero can’t use his DP on wake up anymore. Only neutral. Ryu, Captain and Haggar can wake up from an oki situation bust invincibility for free and then tag/pop storm. They will likely be seen more in the meta later on (at least Haggar and Cap) due to this. After that it’s relying on a character that has an invincible level 1.

There are some middle grounds like Gamora who can get meatied out of her invincible super now, but there’s still a lot of situations where you can use it if there’s a slight gap or they haven’t actually hit you yet. Nova’s super nova ball is attack invincible so you can use it vs anything that isn’t a meaty projectile and get out. You can still end up trading vs projectiles as long as the opponent is close enough to be hit on first active frame.


#1993

What do people think about Bucky? His armour is insane. He has three levels of armour from what I’ve figured out, qcf+lp which is basic projectile armour, qcb+hp which is physical attack armour for the whole duration, and dd+p for his hyper armour. I see nothing wrong with walking up face to face at the start of the match and just pressing qcb+hp, because they either press buttons and get launched, or you switch and jdgaf. I honestly thought qcb+ hp would have limited use until I realised it had so much physical armour, the best I figured was to combo it after launch but it seems like a proper utility tool.


#1994

Bucky is a solid character on point or on support. Probably not ideal to play on point or by himself for long periods of time due to his lacking mix up (other than stance cancel frame traps) and all of his projectiles being reflectable, but with the tag system he’s got some pretty strong stuff.

His QCB+HP actually is hyper armor. It just runs out right after the hit box starts. It’ll soak up anything. His metal arm stance can’t really be considered armor. Armor still puts you into a hit stun of sorts, just that you can still move during it and can’t be comboed or launched. This basically allows you to eliminate hit stun and literally walk through whatever is hitting you (other than lows or throws). Usually people try to beat hyper armor by pressing a button then throwing out a super and tag cancelling so you’re forced to take heavy burst damage. Can’t do that against metal arm because it basically makes his hit box invisible to anything other than lows and throws.

The cool thing about the metal arm is that it’s also completely projectile immune, so it’ll stop Gamora’s c.LK even though it’s a low because her low is a projectile.

Pretty solid overall, but generally best as a team character. Probably not as solid by himself as Venom or Black Widow especially since all the projectiles can be reflected and put him in danger if he’s not careful.


#1995

just a quick note. it doesn’t have to be a low or throw. a launcher will knock him out of arm stance. things that have low hit boxes will hit him…for ex zeros hadangeki buster cancel


#1996

Ah yeah that’s right. Anything with a lower hit box.


#1997

Imo he’s meant to be a “problem” character, the problem is he just doesn’t do enough damage in between each shenanigan. For instance if you do a basic magic series into ground bounce and then throw heavy grenade, when you land you time surge past them into the corner, the grenade bounces off the back wall and comes from behind, and depending how they roll that puts you in good positions. The interesting thing is that if they try and reflect the grenade the grenade will reflect in the opposite direction putting you at zero risk. So the grenade covers the ground area from behind and you have anti air guns to stop them from jumping at you, so you’re in a very advantageous zoning position.

You can continue this mixup with Time surge, I play him with Venom for his long switch distance and easy damage, so you can get some good stuff off it, but that’s about where Bucky’s mixups end. You can make them whiff advanced guard, switch and tag them that way, or just go into arm stance and intimiadate the fuck out of them. So he’s got some interesting ways of messing with people, I like him.


#1998

I was disappointed to see I couldn’t kidnap bucky with firebrand in metal arm stance, but getting in on him it’s an issue. That punch super got some spray though. He’s not for me but I think he’s pretty cool. I’m having a ball with Monster Hunter/Black Panther at the moment. Mainly because making someone block predator arts then switching in Monster Hunter in Demon Mode is one of the dumbest most easy mixups I’ve ever done. Also Panthers Uppercut into Up arrows gives me some ChrisG style shenanigans. If BP is left alone though, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. I actually rock the team with time stone. Air to air it’s weak but time stone with these characters wierd gaps and laggy moves makes the ground lava.


#1999

So I’ve been thinking about this unblockable, there must be multiple things going on with the x axis that’s making it crap out. If you think, an example I used before, there’s a lot going on with the x axis that goes beyond your basic left/right cross up action.

Again for example you jump over someone’s head and switch, your partner will come in on the side you started from, on the other hand if you super jump over someone’s head your partner will come in from the correct position you’re placed on the axis. So it has at least something to do with the short hop mechanic, and the way they designed x axis orientation in relation to switching that causes this to happen. #obvious

So there’s a similarity between your orientation and the opponents orientation until you touch the ground or meet a specific condition, such as super jump. There’s things you can do to test this, normals for example don’t correct your orientation unless you super jump, however special moves will. Time stone over the head will switch the opponents orientation but will keep your orientation the same until you finish the teleport, so at that moment you’re both facing the same direction, and that sounds like what’s being described in the case of the unblockable.

You can see in this clip that P2 orientation is maintained where as P1 orientation isn’t, however in the second clip you can see that all three characters have exactly the same orientation, moving to the right, at this point both P1 and P2 are facing the same way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FeK0SqM7UGQ


#2000

So I’m guessing that both P1 and P2 have independent orientation unlike more traditional games that always makes characters face the correct way.