MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion


#2021

Good stuff with time storm. I imagine some of that is kinda easy to pushblock, but with a partner you can lock them down for sure. He seems to have decent combos into time storm any ways so that’s good for confirming and starting.

My new side team (and possible main team depending) was going to be Space Jedah/BW, but I’ve been hearing a lot of how cheap Time Natalia is so most likely will learn both Time and Space for that team.


#2022

Most of those were strings were meant to show off what options are possible(high/low/left/right/grab), including responses to push block. Drill cancels can pretty much negate pushblock with Jedah’s ground/air dash. If you ground dash you get the option to drill again with lk/hk depending on the opponents position. If you don’t want to be precise with a drill just throw out a lk somersault and cancel that into a drill once it’s blocked. There’s so many paths available.

Also, personal bias here, time is Jedah’s best stone and if you’re gonna learn that you might as well throw strider onto your team. Strider with time surge and orbs is a human projectile that ignores durability and sets up lockdown for Jedah’s high/low game off tag. Plus strider puts in tons of work with Jedah’s setplay which means meter can be burnt for orbs without worrying too much about kills.

It’s a really fun team.


#2023

Pretty cool time storm stuff with Jedah. Still wouldn’t say time stone is better than space stone though. Space locks you in place and doesn’t allow tag outs, so Jedah is free to run his strong mixups anyway and pretty much guarantee a kill


#2024

Coin, how do use the teleport in neutral with jedah? I imagine there is some pretty crazy pinwheel into teleport settings. Especially on incoming


#2025

People most don’t know how to use time stones surge. Even with BP I found some stupid shit. It’s not hard and this drill shit will 3asily get ambigous. I like space because I like predictable.


#2026

I’d say Time surge and Space surge are neck and neck. Space surge effects the acceleration of time surge however time surge recovers faster and can punish space surge. The armour on space surge, and the invulnerability on time surge, are equally useful in their own ways.

The box is strong, very strong, but the speed and ability to cancel anything into anything gives you unlimited possibility for block strings and AG bait, while the box only prevents the dummy from moving and switching. They’re pretty even imo, but I favour Time over Space, it just has more benefits in the neutral imo and enhances a players front better than Space does.


#2027

I’m just talking about Jedah. In neutral you want to be able to pull people into your pinwheels. Also, Jedah already has unreactable mixups so be able to lock them in place without being able to counter switch is just too good to pass up.


#2028

My friendly neighborhood Jedah is putting this to work. Scary stuff. He was already a pretty good time stone user because he hated my trap game. I’d still say space is better in general, but matchup wise time could prove more useful.


#2029

Space is definitely Jedah’s best stone as the pinwheels are much more oppressive and can fight zoning better when you can space surge people into them. The pinwheels are easier to maneuver around or shoot through when you’re not using space. Space surge makes them much more powerful both for zoning and offense. Plus Jedah can set up basically near inescapable meaties during space storm into pinwheels that lock you down for mix up and near guaranteed level 3.

Time Stone has some good stuff for Jedah in the storm and time surge is nice to help him get in suddenly or escape a corner, but he doesn’t really benefit too much from being anymore mobile as you can’t really place the pinwheels too far away from where you are any way. Like if you’re fighting Dorm or Doctor Strange you might as well have space as otherwise they will just keep putting shit on the screen to zone you out as you’re flying around with the surge. Time Storm does have some good stuff, but Space storm is also arguably his other best storm and space surge is definitely his best surge.

I think like Worst Player said though, there’s probably certain matchups where time stone could be more useful and with the way Natalia’s sticky bomb works, the time surge alone could make time her best stone. You pretty much get unreactable 50/50 as long as you’re anywhere near them before the bomb goes off. I’m sure she has some cute stuff in the storm as well.


#2030

Haha like I said, it’s personal bias behind my opinion. I just think in most matchups that will matter, time will be more useful. Jedah can get trapped pretty easily because he lacks both a useable wave dash and dynamic air dashes. I’ll take the ability to stay out of a variety of bad situations rather than the ability to create a single bad one for the opponent.

I just think the windup for pinwheel plus the need to space surge at least twice, realistically, to create blockstun is giving the opponent too much time to establish counter measures. Not to say it’s not good, it’s powerful as hell, but there’s answers. My Jedah/Strider/Time team doesn’t care too much about it since I can vajra, jet pack, surge x tag, or with orbs active just surge to turn into an invincible cannonball as strider to create blockstun while you set up.

It does come down to matchups but I feel like time counters space. Not to mention the fact that when playing as runaway jedah you’re time surging in the air as much as possible+abusing orbs and surge as strider which means you’re building storm very quickly. If you can build your storm first, the box won’t matter since you can deny it.


#2031

I can vouch for Jedah with time stone and I’m glad I’m not the only one that thinks Jedah with time stone is super good. Pinwheel setups into surge are dirty.

Jedah is an awesome addition to the cast and Capcom made him right. However, I didnt stick with Jedah or time stone because I find Jedahs stray hit confirms tricky and because reality stone was super buff pre-patch.


#2032

Yeah it’s just usually you already have to be rushing down to get into a position to throw pinwheel into time surge and there’s certain matchups with very mobile characters where that will be tough to do. As opposed to space where you just throw out pinwheel, press surge and they are forced into the wheel.

The nice thing about Jedah is the people that do have all of his funky flight confirms down, once you get them down you can basically convert off anything and do huge damage before they even get knocked to the ground. He has derp easy confirms also. Press a button in the air, do qcf+LK sonic spin, air super then either do knockdown into qcb+P capture state move or tag in partner and do stuff. That’s the online special.


#2033

Not unless you’re faced against a Time player, otherwise the surge negates Space surge completely.


#2034

Space surge vs time surge is weird. I’ve had times where the time surge works in my favor and other times where you get pulled entirely out of a good spot and then they tag in a partner and you’re likely going to get hit.


#2035

I struggled with tem building in mvc3 cause my favorite characters had certain pairing that were just too good to ignore but they were a dime a dozen
anyways i just got this and i wanted to know about the thanos and monster hunter pairing and which stone would you recommend

I put them together with power stone but I was thinking about time also


#2036

Power isn’t bad. Neither of those characters really hugely benefit from power since they already have generally pretty easy conversions and derpy buttons. They’re not really like pixie characters where the anti pushblock during the storm would help them much. Fast characters benefit from power surge more than more big body type characters who can already swing unga shit into long term hit confirms. Fast characters can easily scramble behind you and press surge and make it cross up.

Time is good as both characters have good air buttons they can abuse and cancel into time surge to put them into a different position on the screen. Could mess with their cancel properties in the time storm to see what cool stuff they get neutrally in the storm. Likely have some decent time storm combos also. Plus the surge generally improves their movement greatly and Monster Hunter already becomes pretty OD with her cancels and movement in demon mode.

Space is good for them because space is good for everybody and they both have specials that you can throw out and pull people into. Soul is good also because they both have stuff that’s good to spam during the storm and can kinda force their hand during it.


#2037

Something I’m really struggling with is something we haven’t talked a whole lot about and that’s team dynamics/structure/format. Past Marvel games have been very clear, for instance MvC2 was mainly structured as battery/main/assist each with certain purposes, MvC3 was a little bit different and could possibly be described as shell1/shell2/anchor, but with Infinite I’m honestly not sure how to describe team dynamics in this way, or whether we’ve even reached the stage where we understand enough to be able to do so.

I get some of the concepts in this game, but I struggle to understand the overall goal. For instance, it seems for a lot of players matchups don’t really matter, or perhaps matchups just can’t be defined in a traditional sense. Players favour one particular move, lariat for example, and they base their gameplan around that (spam lariat, switch and win), people don’t seem to be thinking about whether Dante is a better matchup against Ultron, or some shit like that, it’s as if classic matchups aren’t being considered or aren’t needed, and that’s where I’m lost.

For example, Sentinel/Storm/Commando is a counter pick to Storm/Sentinel/Commando, you know? There was a clear advantage to playing Sentinel on point sometimes. But in Infinite, I don’t see that. I play Winter Soldier mostly, so my mind set is, play the keepaway game, build a bit of Infinity, land my hit confirm and then switch and go in for damage; where as another mind set might be just to walk forward and do qcb+p and switch just for the fuck of it because qcb+p has sick ass properties and is safe with a switch. So I’m kind of lost as to how to approach my team dynamics; what is the purpose of my point character? What is the purpose of my second character? What words do I use to specifically define their purpose? How to I put that into a format?

That’s where I’m blank, I look at the character select and can’t make sense of my gameplan because there’s so many strategies I can’t fit character to character and say “yeah this is a good idea!” I play WinterSoldier/Venom, Winter Soldier has sick hit confirms, Venom has a full screen switch dash, boom easy damage. But that’s a classical way of thinking, not an infinite way of thinking, sometimes I just qcb+p in their face on GO and people are like wtf while his armour eats all their button presses, and I think, well what the hell was the purpose of that? How do I format that? It might as well be called team Charlie, Scrub/Dante/Winning.

I really don’t get it…


#2038

The game hasn’t been out long enough to define stuff like that and the tag system makes it so that people can basically make their own assists. It’s going to be a while before people come up with all of the tag assist options for each character and really define teams and the meta. Just have fun playing for right now.


#2039

But this is what I mean, is it even right to call them assists anymore? Terminology gets thrown into the meat grinder with this game. Because, sometimes they’re not always providing an additional opportunity for a character as per-se an assist, they’re literally providing an opening for the character; they’re leading not assisting.

It’s like I’ve mentioned before, the point character becomes an extension of the second character, so they’re almost symbiotic. So character P1A might be a bad matchup with P2A, while P1B might be a good matchup with P2A, that doesn’t make sense to run your team like that unless P1A has a move that’s really good against P2A, like it has invincibility, or shit tons of armour, or is generally just a good move to throw out there.

You know, to me that’s like scrub mentality, proper YOP, I’m not used to that, I don’t know how to build a team based on so many different factors, especially behaviours that I’ve specifically avoided in the past. To me Winter Soldier is an excellent point character because of his keepaway and hit confirms, but qcb+hp is really really fucking good. So do I play orthodox and start zoning with my main and fish for hits, or do I just Hail Mary with his fucking arm and let Venom do his rip?

I’m mind fucked, like literally I don’t know what the correct mentality is anymore or where it crosses the line of being a scrub. At least one bit of good is that this game allows a wider variety of players to apply strategies that are good for them regardless of how other players have been bred over the years.


#2040

Just need more time for the meta to develop. I say it’s close enough to an assist as you can release them so quickly that most of the time you can move and do normal things as if they were an assist, just you have to give up using the character to do it.

It allows neutral to be created in a ton of ways that it couldn’t before and it’s very diverse between teams. I think eventually you’ll have a lot of meta teams where one character does more of the point work and the other does more of the “lead in” work. Like stuff like a Zero/Strange or Morrigan/Monster Hunter. First character is definitely more the point character and the second character has a bunch of tools that can be abused and tagged in with to allow them to occupy was more space on screen than they normally can.