MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion


I don’t see Thanos as Top 10 yet but definitely in the 11-15 range.

And he is better than Thor. I play them both and Thanos has more spacing control than Thor plus he is the better grappler even with Thor Kara throws.


Y’all are still as crazy as ever.
Hawkeye is a really good support character but, that’s all he is.
There’s a reason Dualkevin pairs him with Dante. Hawkeye absolutely needs Dante in order to convert off of his stuff.

-Hawkeye has NO mix-up.
-Over half of all his projectiles are reflectable (including Ice Arrow, Poison Arrow and Triple Arrow).
-He can’t chip you to death like in UMvC3. XF3 Hawkeye could kill you with chip in like 5 seconds.
So at neutral, stop pressing buttons a full-screen away like an idiot and just reflect his shit. He can’t do anything against you without Active Switch. He gets nothing off of throws with Active Switch. 1-on-1 he has basically no way to fight top tiers.
5-5 against Dante??? Seriously? You must be fighting only braindead trash online lag Dantes.
-Because of all of the above, he has ZERO comeback factor. Use all of your resources to kill his partner.
-He is just as weak against teleports as in UMvC3. Especially since his Pizza Cutter was nerfed heavily and he gets no self conversions off of throws. He has to rely on Active Switch or Power Stone.


From tourney play I still stand by 6/4 in Dante’s favor I just threw out the 5/5 because I wasn’t completely sure at the time. There are only 4 strong Hawkeye players I have watched atm in tourney scene and when going over footage If dantes’ close the gap it’s over for Hawkeyes, but having to block all the time is destroying momentum of the players. Add that Hawkeye’s explosive arrow pushs people back on block with the pain of space stone bringing them right into the explosive. The Hawkeye player wants dante to either teleport so they can punish with gimlet or move towards them and start a combo of the explosion. If space stone was not a factor I would say Hawkeye is trash, but since we have this trap meta atm with Rocket, and Hawkeye they are too good to sleep on. Now the only reason I gave Dante a positive in this match up is that he can get the edge just by being patient, and slowly getting in range. But Dante cannot just simply go ham on hawkeye. He has to give respect to Hawkeye to get in , and that’s why I place this match up 6/4 Dante’s favor.

The only reason I was thinking about the 5/5 was due to the lack of success on Dante players closing in that gap.


Good thing this is a game where I seriously rank characters with how good they with other characters that comprise the upper meta.
So in my case he’s fucking amazing. Since really I would not put Rocket Raccoon in top 10 if this game wasn’t played how it is.


Well Hawkeye works the way he does because of the tag system so I feel you have to rate him within the system. Even when he’s by himself he’s definitely stronger than what was listed there.

If reflects were enough to calm down Hawkeye I think we would have seen it by now. People do try to reflect him, but with the tag system there’s way too many things to worry about in trying to reflect and one bad reflect means you take a full screen combo. Which after that you’re most likely taking more arrows followed by tag in for pressure or just still dealing with Hawkeye chucking stuff. Plus there’s not many characters that can confirm a reflect that hits him into huge damage any way.

Plus the big problem with him is that 2 of his strongest arrows can’t be reflected. The up arrows which are basically an arcing AA assist that sets up mix ups easily with any time stone team or teleport character and the electric arrow which also locks up the vertical screen and can’t be reflected. Up arrows is easily top 5 assists in the game because it covers the range of a horizontal projectile assist and the air at the same time. Once it’s out you pretty much have to deal with it and then tag into Dante, Coon or Zero = GL. The only real way to not deal with it is stay full screen from him, but that’s where you can’t really do much either.

You can list a bunch of things about why Commando isn’t so hot on his own, but within the team roles of the game he creates some of the most dominating situations in the game. Similar with Hawkeye except he’s clearly better by himself. The game is about keeping 2 characters alive any way so that fits perfectly for Hawkeye since his goal is to do the work while both characters are alive. Pairing him with a top character + Space or Soul Storm so there’s no way the goal is as easy as “kill Dante/Jedah/Strider/Coon/Zero” first. You’re either going to get boxed up half way into killing his partner or his partner comes back to life. He fights pretty well if he’s put in the box also.


Sometimes I’m glad DevilJin writes novels so I don’t have to.


Kinderparty’s Tier list


I am surprised at how high BOTH metal arm men are on that list.
Also not sure why Thor is so low.

But otherwise… there isn’t a lot I disagree with.


I agree with some parts of that list. Not exactly in placement but like the top 5 characters are about right. Strider should probably be where Zero and Jedah are, but good enough where he is. Hawkeye being near top tier is about right. The tag system just turns him into the ultimate assist threat and basically lets you turn arrow he has into an assist. It’s like if you were playing Marvel 3 and Hawkeye had 20 assists to choose from but you can technically use any of them in battle due to the way the system works.

Winter Solider is a bit high IMO. He has more of an issue with his shit being reflected than Hawkeye does. Like even if you reflect Hawkeyes arrows it’s very difficult even if it hits him to convert that into a combo unless you reflect a freeze arrow. With Winter Soldier any good reflect on his machine gun and you can likely dash up into a combo if you’re close enough or generally put him in a situation where he’s going to be at frame disadvantage unless he tags and even then that’s risky. What he does have going for him though is that gun loop shit where he can basically move forward while being able to combo you from full screen. Plus a bit better pressure than most of the other gun/zoner dudes if he gets close.

Monster Hunter should be higher. Demon mode is OD as hell and turns a character that is big bodyish into a chaaracter that’s extremely mobile, has very hard to see left/rights (that pretty much require you to grab to get out of with any consistency) and a grounded overhead. She is also one of the best support characters with a cinematic invincible level 1, armor move that easily covers the bottom half of the of the vertical screen into tag and a bunch of forward moving moves that lock people down into tag.

Morrigan should be a bit higher. She has the new best air dash H in the game and her ability to zone and keep people off her with her near best in the game invincible level 1 should have her up there. She’s not as cheap in the air as other characters, but her pressure just below super jump height is OD and even better than it was in Marvel 3.

Black Widow is probably about right. Has a lot of tools, well rounded, just hasn’t proven to be as cheap as other characters yet. Like Viper she has a lot of strong special moves, but her buttons just seem kinda run of the mill and Marvel is generally about swinging stupid ass buttons when you’re not in a space to throw out your more committal specials. Her invincible level 1 is really strong though as it’s basically an invincible air ok grab that activates instantly after freeze. Never gas is scary also as it basically is a web ball style move that freezes the opponent up on hit, but creates a large hit box that puts the opponent in block stun as well. Sticky bombs will likely get scary when set up with the tag system also.

BP, Frank West, Thor, Arthur and Sigma are too low I feel, but they’re not amazing either so eh. Never goes real far to argue who’s the best at being mediocre/ok.


I think BlackWidow will rise to the top. Her playstyle is interesting and i can just see how she can be completely dominant when paired right. I think her with Hawkeye is a great combo, maybe Nova too.

She is mediocre with Strider (i don’t like it) IMO.

I’m electing Nat as a possible top tier in the future.


Widow definitely has a lot of potential, including some really dirty setups/mixups, but I don’t think she can set them up reliably enough to ever be top tier.
If you let her start her gameplan, she’s incredibly strong, but I also think it’s not that hard to keep her from doing that.


I play Hawkeye/Widow Time Stone. The characters have immense synergy.


I don’t like Widows buttons but her specials are dope.



for kp’s list, i’d move dante down with zero, rr, etc. he’s still bullshit, but not as bad as roll your face on the stick and win bullshit.

i’ll move firebrand down one notch and swap places with ultron, i think fb is slightly overrated since they nerfed the tornadoes. everything else he can do, others can do better.

haggar should be lower. he still has trouble getting in. the tag system helps, but characters with superior reach is still an issue (which is nearly everyone).

move carol, sigma and thanos at least one row up. its funny seeing how low carol dropped, but i think she still has enough tools to get the job done. sigma blows up certain play styles and offers excellent support. normals aren’t too bad either, although its a bit slow. I don’t see how Thanos is lower than the characters above him. I’m thinking because there isn’t much Thanos players that stuck with him.

Move Thor at least 2-3 rows higher. He is that good. Not only did all his normals got better since umvc3, air spark has a ridiculous hitbox and he can confirm off nearly everything.

Ghost Rider and Venom should be higher. Ghost Rider is like pre-SF4 Vega. Don’t count out his ability to frustrate your opponents. He offers great support too. I really don’t see what makes Venom two rows lower than Captain America.

Move Hulk, Ryu and Chris in the same tier. The system works against Hulk. Damage scaling and standardized life bars hurts. Not to mention armor getting beat by other heavies. Ryu doesn’t belong in a marvel vs game, its not surprising that he sucks and continue to suck. luckily, he doesn’t need to worry about that for a while. chris got some buffs, but not enough to move him further up.

frank and black panther are bottom. black panthers design doesnt work for this engine. capcom managed to fuck everything up with frank, despite giving him new moves and shit.


Heh, games full of a few of those but I’m talking frames. Like visually, I was hardly even touching ultron during
his super and I was in full lockdown in a game barely touching his shoulder blades.


Yeah her buttons are not that good unlike those of Morrigan(j.hp especially), or Nova. I just thought was funny as you said something her buttons and someone uploaded this onto YouTube.


Widow has some deceptively good command normals (df-HK, f-LP, j.d-HP) but overall her buttons are just OK at best.

Her command grabs and gauntlet options are where it’s at.
She’s got good stuff, but again, it’s more that it’s just too easy to shut that stuff down.


Yeah, I played what I thought was a good black widow the other day, then I just said fuck it. I’m going to run through your shit and hit my buttons. It worked all to well. She depended on nailing those setups which are sadly not even close to as stifling or hard to approach as say HE, RRs, or WS.


SRK is back.
MvCI is not.