MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion


#1921

I’d say firebrand is top tier, but I disagree on him having everything. Nothing is invincible, good that’s more common now post patch. His flight while workable Def isn’t ideal. That being said there’s a reason why I clean up with my less than optimized Brand lol, top 10, not top 5.

Lucky for me, my unpopular character choices happen to be pretty good mostly.


#1922

Sigma and Black Widow don’t belong in A tier.

Captain Marvel doesn’t belong in S tier. She is S tier on paper, not in practice.


#1923

Captain Marvel is a strange case, I suppose it’s her hitboxes that hold her back? I haven’t looked at her numbers. Personally she gives me a hard time regardless with her blitz blow nonsense if only because I like to push buttons.


#1924

It’s a mixture of her hitboxes and mobility, her air dashes and unga level don’t seem to be at the level of someone like ultron or nova.

On paper she sounds fantastic. A tri-dasher/flight character with a command grab, a meterless install that makes her armor through lights and projectiles, a beam special/super and a drill claw function that leads to full combo + safe on block.

She’s definitely the character I was most off about, I was convinced she was S tier before the game was released but she fell off quickly afterwards. I’d put her around bottom of A/top of B


#1925

Blitz Blow > Air dash mixups are legit. Even deadlier with Absorber on.

Plus, decent damage and meter on hit with her optimized combos.

Don’t see how that equals to Mid Tier in this game and I disagree.

She can rushdown for herself and setup for partners equally well with her command grabs.

Top 10 character easily.


#1926

Ouch, just looked at her frame data on Tool Assisted, 6 frame standing and crouching jab, that fierce everyone loves pressing at 14 frame startup, and her jump RH doesn’t have the best angle or frames either. The active frames are less than some of her cousins too.

Okay I see it. Like say Ultrons 5 frame jabs, and 11 frame startup jumping fierce is definitely pref.


#1927

She doesn’t have anything like Morrigan’s j.HP, Jedah’s j.HK or Ultron’s j.HP where you just air dash and it crosses up and overheads at the same time while leaving you plus to do it over and over until it hits. That’s the main thing keeping her out of top tier for me. She has no scramble way to open you up without resources or a special move like most of the other top tier 4/8 way dashers. Even the one way air dashers like Chun have better unga bunga overhead crosses. Crossup overheads that can easily fake cross up and land in front also.

The changes to the way air dashes and flight work in Marvel Infinite allow these moves to be abused more than the could in 3. Captain Marvel is like a Marvel 3 air dasher in Marvel Infinite which means she’s stuck having trouble abusing cross up overheads and with the new system there are no more rapid fire lows to keep people sitting for frontal overheads.

Absorber allows her to play like a mini big body, but you have to put on absorber first and people with abuseable heavy buttons/specials/supers can still beat the armor. It’s not MonHun hyper armor where you have to launch cancel, use your surge or grab her (before she tags out and becomes throw immune) to escape.

The other issue with absorber is that 2 of the better neutral based surges beat the armor clean also. Power Surge and Soul Surge both beat the armor clean and can easily tag off of into combos (power surge can obviously combo solo easily with most characters). Meaning there’s at least 2 stones that make her absorber less effective just with their surges. That’s why I think Power Stone is Captain Marvel’s best stone as she can add an extra layer of unga to herself if people are using tools that blow up her absorber.

At best in pre patch she was best IMO as an anti reality stone character. Now that reality stone got nerfed, don’t really see what she offers that’s worth top 10 or really makes her a big part of the meta. She’s also only really had one relevant tournament run with that Nick Jones guy (who used Power Captain not surprisingly) and she’s been ghost otherwise at events.


#1928

So bad numbers and no crossup potential (due to bad numbers. The tool assisted guy even tried the double air dash ULTRON thing and her active frames ended before she could even make him block the 2nd fierce) I can see that just from fighting her. Blitz blow is the only thing I worry about.


#1929

Are X and Zero really a thing or just a novelty pick?

And hows Hawkeye post patch?


#1930

X and Zero as a team work really well. MegaMan is basically the Captain Commando assist for Zero to give him room to move in and do his shit. They both become very strong once they are sitting on meter which mind stone helps with. I started seeing a few Mind Zero/X teams in casuals after NEC which isn’t surrprising. A lot of Megaman’s projectiles can’t be reflected which helps push the issue of Zero getting room easily to move in off anything he does. His special weapons rush super also stops air movement dead in its tracks as if you’re not already blocking before he starts it up it snipes you out of the air. Great for someone like Zero who already has ridiculous presence in the air.

Hawkeye got better, but mainly because other characters got less stupid. He was already good pre patch so not much is new wit him.


#1931

Firebrand is interesting to me because he is a great character that nobody uses. I get tired of seeing the same characters match after match (although I’m a Dante main) so I’ve been shying away from other top tier characters.

(@WorstPlayer; you can find some sweet firebrand combo videos floating around)

I’m not qualified for a tier list because I haven’t played a lot of characters but @“Legend II” your tier list looks about right. I think we could go back and forth between the A and B tiers, but it looks solid.


#1932

Oh I know, really my combos aren’t bad per say. What I really need to look at is better Oki aka wakeup stuff. One of firebrands weaknesses in my book is his defense. If
say a Nova, Ultron, etc can get him to block he doesn’t have many answers. Starting to really think that despite all her neat new shit that Black Widow is starting to be the Jill
of this game. I almost NEVER see her being played, does she not have any easy combos? It seems like she has setups for days though.

I mean she looks about as interesting as a chick in a dark leotard can look so maybe that’s part of it.


#1933

Evil Canadian posted some of the easier combos she has. This game works where it’s not that hard to come up with a basic bnb for any character. You don’t have to look for a bajillion hit TOD combo or burn XF/TAC to get something that works. She’s just probably a character where her optimal stuff is a little crazier. The stuff that Desk does with her probably is beyond what most people will bother to do.

The bigger issue is that her neutral isn’t easy. AKA her cheap shit is locked behind execution and planned setups. The grapple is a big part of her offense since it beats pushblock and can’t be reflected, but there’s a lot of variations to it. You can’t just big body unga or Zero your way in with her and that’s what people want to do online. Find whatever is the quickest shit that you can ram your face with and get started and she’s not that type of character. She’s designed more as an anti unga bunga character and that requires planning and understanding.

Luckily the netcode is good enough to bother playing her. The problem with characters like Jill and Viper was that there was no way to play them optimally in lag. Viper especially could near Smash/Starcraft levels of APM, but there was no way to do that in the old netcode.


#1934

C. Marvel pretty much needs Power Stone so you can do ambiguous cross up shit. Unfortunately, you’re better off either picking someone with a real cross up or a better air dash character like Spidey or Nova.

I think Time will start making waves when people figure out how to do BS resets and control neutral with Time Storm.


#1935

Cap marvel is slept on, especially now after the changes. I think it takes someone that is dedicated to playing around her. Her thing is she can get around a lot of BS other characters can’t… but against solid characters with good normals and pressure she doesn’t really shine.

Like vs Ultron everything he wants to do, pretty muchs beat carol or she has to respect. Its not a bad match up because when she hits it hurts and she can bull dog her way in even if its just so her partner can do work. I feel like you almost have to play her like a tridashing grappler.

Her normals are super trash tho… Which makes her low A tier at best.


#1936

Got beat by an ASS Ghost Rider/Dante the other day so bad I had to laugh at myself who used Time Stone. I say Ass mainly because his combos were garbage and his Dante was painful to see in action but I was too busy being irritated with his Time stone up back ass to be logical about the fight. He just time stoned around randomly and when he got meter supered into more Time stone teleports. I think there was some wierd rollback factor too.

I can see time storm finding it’s asshole.


#1937

Ghost Rider is particularly nasty with Time because he can slip out of danger after whiffing a normal

Tell me thread, what characters/stones make for the best keep away team? And I mean old school Cable/Blackheart/Spiral “hold these hitboxes” style keep away, not air dashing around like a bitch.


#1938

Time is also good with Ghost Rider because teleports are really good when combined with his whip super since it’s not a true blockstring.

I think keepaway Winter Soldier with time stone can be super annoying to deal with.


#1939

X and Zero as stated do legit work very well. Zero has the mobility and buttons to get in, he’s 100% your point. X is there to tag in while Zero either hits or makes them block. X can then go for some IAD high/low shenanigans or throw boomerangs for lockdown and tag Zero right back in for mixups. X in his own right is good with punishes. SWR can tag people trying to SJ away, the one area Zero has trouble reaching, and Buster super can punish wiffs from full screen. Hit on either super can be followed up with tag for a full combo.


#1940

X and Zero is the team I fear the most, Zero’s mobility and reversal options combined with X’s ability to flood the airdash range and punishing bad moves with his super is scary.

Didn’t help that @MegamanSteve bodied me in ranked about a month ago lol