My first tournament! (Thanks for your help!)

dan

#1

Well, I’ve sunk more hours into SSF4’s online than I can count, which was clearly a bad idea. I thought nobody else on my campus played SSF4, until I found out there’s a place downtown that hosts casuals every Wednesday. I’m not going to name names, but there’s one guy there (some of you may know him) who is pretty much known by everyone as “the guy who’s obviously going to win (like always).”

To hell with talk of tier lists and “beginner friendly” characters, I’ve played Dan too much to enter the tournament (which is this Sunday) as anyone else!

What I want to know is, what advice can you give to a first timer? “Mix ups” for instance, of which I’m almost certain there are few…

YAHOO!


#2

Dan mixups? As soon as you get out of Danku, choose Throw, Dashback, a Koryuken, an EX Danku or a late OS-Crouch Tech (:db::lk::lp:). Generally, Koryuken without a FADC is mega-unsafe.

Throw beats mistimed normals, blocking and throwable reversals. Resets the field when tech’d, and loses to throw immune reversals and properly timed normals as the opponent comes out of blockstun.

Dashback is mega-safe, and good for baits. Doesn’t work against far-reaching reversals or Sweep-based OSs versus Backdashes.

Koryuken beats a lot of different reversals (and throws!), but timing can mean whether or not it works. Doing a Koryuken right after a blocked LK.Danku can be a near-useless blockstring if the Danku was blocked crouching. Can be pretty unsafe if the opponent dashes backwards or teleports, regardless of whether or not you have meter to FADC it.

EX Danku catches backdashes and things like Dhalsim’s teleport.

Late OS-Crouch Tech will let you block quick reversals, tech throws, block light attacks, mashed Ultras and Supers… It’s good, but proper timing varies with each character you’re fighting.

As for general first-time tips for offline play against people you don’t know, eat right and drink lots of fluids. Shower too. Just be comfortable going in and if you get jitters, deep breaths. Don’t OD on caffeine and stay away from them high-fructose soda drinks.

Also, go into training mode and practice your basic setups before you go. The problem with going from online to offline is your timing gets messed up serious.


#3

I watched Sugami’s excellent Dan tutorial video a while back, so I’m familiar the mix ups you’ve just mentioned (I was hoping Dan had some others I wasn’t aware of). But you went the extra mile and explained the do/donts/hows/whys of these various mix ups. Thanks for the reply!

As for eating right, I’ll make sure to eat a can of beans while standing over the sink before I head out.


#4

Thanks :3

Heh, well I’m not right person to give advice on tournaments since I get stressed over meaningless games but try to keep a cool head and take things easy. Above all else have fun, the more fun you have the better you play (probably) and the more the crowd will enjoy it too.

Can’t really explain mix-ups as such. Basically do mix-up, keep them guessing. Don’t keep doing the same thing :stuck_out_tongue: You should know what options you have after what and what beats what so you’re essentially just picking the option that will counter what you think your opponent will do.

If you can sneak in a j.HK > s.MP that sets up a mix-up similar to a point blank Knee, even on block but just out of throw range. If it connects you can link into a KRK and FADC into Haoh if you can. Works with xj.MK on a few characters.


#5

No, thank you! I’m only hoping I have the crowd on my side for the simple fact that I’m playing Dan. I got obliterated at casuals last night in MvC3, I overheard guys talking about how scrubby my Hulk was…it got to me, and I started making stupid(er) mistakes. Before that though, I got a win off of him; he kept shaking his head and sucking his teeth, getting real salty (I assumed) because he was getting caught in my Day 1 scrub combos (Something, something, launcher, M, M, H, S, OTG Hyper, repeat). Keeping a cool head is not something I’m very good at, and I know the place’ll be packed on Sunday…all those eyes on the screen, whispers of how I’m free; I can see it already… shudder


#6

Here’s the thing. Don’t get too salty over screwing up. It will happen to you. It will happen to everyone. A little bit of salt goes a long way to motivate you to fix what you did wrong, but too much salt and you’ll die of a heart attack.

Dissect what you do wrong and rethink your strategy or, in a lot of cases with a new game, make a mental note to go back to the Training Room. You’re probably smart enough to know when you’re completely up the creek in certain situations.

And always remember, you play Dan. Making people salty is in your blood. The best way to rub salt in some guy’s wound is to stay calm, cool and collected. Stay happy and don’t brood too long if you lose. If you’re free, you’re free. We’re all free at some point. Good players can recognize this and take steps to get better.

Anyways, generally people take it too far when they start outright insulting people’s play. Don’t sweat the cretins. They’re gutter trash and probably have no friends or personal hygiene.


#7

A wise man named Gootecks once said-"Dan’s greatest strength is people saying he’s not a good character"
Sugami-"I get stressed over meaningless games but try to keep a cool head and take things easy"
I nickel for every time i heard that -_-
But anyways, don’t forget about Dan’s jabs. I wish I can play with you but my bro took his stuff away to move to the new house. One of the important things to do is Dan’s Jab Combos, they pack a punch. If you can hit someone with a crLP, your mind will adapt to finishing a combo that you didn’t expect to do. My jab combo bait is mostly crLp,crLk,crLp,sLk,bait lk Danku. And like Krack said, after a danku and if blocked, try going for a grab.
There is also a very high chance of you starting to get nervous and shake, after all, that “obviously going to win” is stuck in your head that you will possibly be afraid. But you know what will block that cloud of nervousness? Go straight to a crouching taunt when the game starts. I’d like to call it “~~Unleash Hell!~~”, it’s also calling to your opponent saying "I’m not done yet!"
But I do have some crouching taunt baits, yes baits, maybe some Dan players use it but i NEVER see it so…
After a successful HK Danku hit, go into crouching taunt then Ex Danku, or if they jump, anti Koryu that shit. And also the back throw into Medium Danku then taunt then bait the person troll face
A corner little combo to do is when the person wakes up, throw a Heavy Gadoken then try to ex danku, they barely expect it.


#8

Hell yeah, thanks man. I’ll be sure to try that. I’ve seen his crouching taunt do some insane stuff, like interrupt random Bison Ultra II and start-of-the-round Psycho Crusher (his taunts really are his most powerful weapons!)

Speaking of other wake up options, I’ve seen amazing Dan players like PKSkyler and hWnd do things like crouching Mk on Balrog’s wake up followed by a Lk Danku. Obviously this is a character specific strategy (his crouching Mk ducks under wake up headbutt!), but are there any other special wake up game options? What about “meaty” attacks? Is going for crossup Mk in the corner wise (because you allow the opponent a free escape)?


#9

No it’s not wise, basically…just spam that Lk Danku with mixups. That’s Dan’s Flowchart. The Danku


#10

On Dhalsim - cr.LK xx EX Danku + Input EX Danku again (:d::lk::qcb::mk::hk::qcb::mk::hk:) beats everything but Super and Crouch-Block.

He teleports backwards, out comes the second EX Danku. He teleports behind you, Auto-correct EX Danku. He blocks high, eats Danku. He jumps, cr.LK nabs him in pre-jump frames. He dashes backwards, gets hit by second EX Danku input. He uses Yoga Catastrophe, you connect with cr.LK because of Catastrophe’s lack of Invulnerability Frames and cancel into Koryuken instead to blow through the fireball because you have time to react during the Ultra Freeze.

So in that matchup, you can essentially just do that. And when he starts being too afraid to do anything else but crouch-block, mix it up with tick-throws and things. He has a 1-frame window to punish blocked cr.LK xx EX Danku with a throw or a Back Light Kick (Which combos into nothing, and is unplinkable in this instance), but it’s still a pretty easy option select that covers all of Dhalsim’s options, letting you keep pressure without having to worry too much.

If you don’t have any meter in that situation, you can use cr.LK with regular Danku of whatever strength, which works as a pretty nice frame-trap and does roughly the same thing (It’s also safer on block). Heavier normals do tend to pay-off more when they connect meaty, but they whiff for so long that Dan can’t really use them in even the most generous option-selects (Like versus Ground Teleport). This may change in AE with Dan’s buff to his normals (Jooooy!)

This shenanigan also works on Deejay, except it leaves you open for his Ultras if he does them as a Reversal, I think. Also, only do one EX Danku unless you want to open yourself up to Rolling Sobat.

cr.MK is useful in certain matchups because it allows you to meaty against reversals that don’t hit low, like Guy’s EX Tatsu or Balrog’s EX Headbutt, then punish the whiffed reversal. Do it from far enough away and there’s no risk involved outside of them dashing backwards (Guy’s backdash is pretty godlike, so it’s not the end-all-be-all.)

On Balrog specifically, cr.MK xx HK.Danku beats Headbutt and combos on Counter-Hit. It loses to EX Punches, so be careful. Substitute HK.Danku with EX Danku to blow up everything but EX Dashing Straight. Substitute that with a straight meaty LK.Danku to blow up anything with EX Armor, or use cr.MK xx Koryuken to make yourself seem like a psychic. Generally Balrog players resort to EX moves to escape a constant barrage of meaties when they start to panic. Don’t be afraid to switch to a simple Meaty LK.Danku or Meaty EX Danku once you’ve stopped a few wakeup Headbutts.

Those are all I can think of currently. Handle the rest of the cast with standard LK.Danku wakeup pressure, mixed liberally with tick-throws and crossups.


#11

Instead of doing xj.MK in the corner you can do j.LK, it won’t cross-up in the corner and you can tick or double tick into throw or try to snag them with a c.LK “combo”.


#12

I KNEW it! Why isn’t stuff like this in the matchup thread? Wait, it’s because our enemies might browse the thread and use the info against us…?

This is amazing stuff dude, can’t thank you enough. So all I have to do is get in on Dhalsim, and let the beatdown begin!

And for Rog, I can use cr. MK from afar to “fish” for his rush punches and then get the counter hit HK Danku? GENIUS!

I know I sound like I bought the game yesterday with all these questions (and my obvious lack of time in the lab), but one more thing–what about Akuma (I hate the vortex), Guile (only thing I like about him is his theme song), Bison, and lord oh lord BLANKA? I remember watching a stream where PKSkyler was fighting a Rog player, and the commentator was talking about how Rog is like the only charge character Dan has decent options against. I know it’s an uphill battle regardless but…

I know a few things, like if you start walking backwards against Bison and he does his jump/dive move thingy, it’s a free punish as soon as he lands at your feet, right? What else?


#13

hahaha, try not to follow in my footsteps too much, I’m not very good X)

I also still get tourney nerves and such, but for me personally being on the stream or having a bunch of people watching me actually gives me some more confidence, maybe like Dan himself haha.

Personally, the cr.mk vs Balrog is good when he has no meter or ultra. The ex dash punch and ultra will beat it. BUT you can do a grab which will beat an ex dash punch, or sometimes if you do cr.mk xx Koryuken it can beat it too. Nothing beats ultra unfortunantly, so watch out for that.

Use j.lk in the corner. You can fake a cross up easily and be safe from many reversals. If you go for j.mk either hope you hit them and go for a combo or do the j.mk then just block when you land. Blocked j.mk can be mashed out by any character because it has no hitstun.

Oh! a great thing to learn is how to knee shoryukens/reversals. If you learn how to Knee Ryu Ken Akuma Dudley and Gouken out of their uppercut type moves (non ex tho) you can beat many of your foes who pick those characters.

For Akuma, I say the main thing is to not get knocked down. But if you do, the best thing to do is backdash. Reversal uppercut mostly always gets stuffed or avoided. Blocking the correct way is the 2nd best thing. If you knock Akuma down you can do your own ghetto vortex thats very potent if you are good at reading your opponent.

Guile is impossible haha. Best thing is to slowly push him into the corner, and learn how to make your knees beat his flashkicks.

Bison’s footsies can be tough, but you can pressur him a lot on wake up. Knee beats pretty much everything when he doesnt have meter. when he does, bait out that wake up ex psycho crusher, you have to block it from a little farther then point blank, then you can punish with an ex dankuu or ultra 1. Also, if you throw him, back throw is best, then you can knee over his corpse and mess up his charge so he CANT psycho crusher or ultra! If you do hk dankuu on his wake up anywhere but the corner, you can avoid bison u2.

On blanka I ussually do cr.mk since it beats electricity. Then I be very very careful when he has ANY kind of meter. I ussually just do cr.mk, block, grab, or hk dankuu.

I think Rog is still a very tough battle hahaha!

You will learn the most through experience. Good luck!


#14

Yeah. Akuma’s a jerk. He has better pokes, a strong zoning game, huge damage, a teleport and the Vortex. Don’t get knocked down, and if you do, calmly try and guess what he’s going to do. A lot of Akuma’s will try a crossup Tatsu, because that’s how their flowchart works. Block it and the oncoming mixup, or try to dash away to reset the playing field.

Watch out for Whiffed Demon Flip into Super if he has full meter. They love to do that. You can only stop it by mashing EX Koryuken or jumping before the Super fires.


#15

Hey, I’m not an expert on wake up shenanigans, but for some reason doing a cr. HP over Sakura stops wakeup Shoryuken (and then of course you follow up with HK Danku). Does this kind of thing have any uses outside of the Sakura match up?

Also, any tips on things that can be done on the opponents wake up to perfect the timing of the meaty attack?


#16

Sakura’s Shouoken has no invulnerability. This means it gets stuffed by pretty much everything. EX Shouoken is her GTFO wakeup reversal, as it has a massive amount of invulnerability frames. Watch for that.

The trick to timing a meaty attack is practice. Characters have relatively the same wakeup speed, but certain characters like Adon and Blanka (I think) don’t.


#17

Ah, I see. I’ve tried replicating the anti-Dhalsim option select set up you mentioned earlier…sometimes I get it; sometimes I don’t.

Well, I’ve been playing in a StreamingLiveJTV PSN server all morning, and I think I’m improving. Wish I could get some vids up, but I don’t have a capture device. Tournament’s only a day away!


#18

Purely from memory; LP Shou is 6 frame start-up, pretty easy to stuff. EX Shou is 13 frame start-up and invincible until active, because it’s so God damn slow you can jump over it and if quick enough punish when she lands. There’s also a small window between the first and second part of it, if you want to risk it you can mash out a KRK.

Hakan and Fuerte have slower than average wake-up speeds, probably couple of others I can’t remember. Blanka’s animation is quite deceiving too, looks like he’s up when he isn’t. Pretty hard to time meaty with Dan since the only normal he has that’s more than 2 active frames is c.HP (that’s 3) :frowning:


#19

Thanks for all of your help guys!

Just got back from the tournament. I didn’t stay til the end of SSF4; it seemed LuckyD had it in the bag. I got absotively posilutely blown up at the tournament. It was seriously bad. I’m gonna wear a paper bag over my head at the next one for sure (just kidding).

I got a real kick out of having the mind games start at the character select screen, I had three matches (one of which was incomplete), and EVERY time my opponent was like “:wtf: DAN?”

Anyway, I’ll give you the details if you care. In hindsight, I should probably stop calling myself Freebyrd; I think it gave my opponents a bit too much confidence, but then again I should have capitalized on that…:sweat:

I had to use a wireless Tekken 6 fight stick, because I don’t have an Xbox and it was the only stick available at my local Gamestop.

I had my first match against a Honda player :rolleyes: but lucky for me the brackets had to be reset after a few players showed up late (bit unprofessional but I was relieved it happened :rofl:).

Then I fought a Juri player. I got a round out of him. Then I lost.

In loser’s, I fought a Bison, then I lost. Then I stayed for about three more hours.

I made a ton of stupid mistakes, and my opponents weren’t falling for Dan’s trademark tricks (“Psycho crusher so I can crouching taunt you, dammit!”). After a few successful “mix ups” (back throw, Mk Danku, back throw again, Mk Danku, teched throw attempt, back throw, Danku, HK Koryu through their throw tech attempt) I started hitting the panic button and I cracked. How do y’all do it? SSF4 is the first fighting game LeftHandedMonkey took seriously, he plays Dan, he’s a beast! There’s little to no info in the matchup thread, and you guys are telling me all of this crazy stuff!

Everyone kept doing a poor job of attempting to secretly point and/or laugh at me after it was over, but it’s all good. I didn’t sweat or anything, I wasn’t salty (I also tried not to look it), and I’ll be back next time!

“It will take more than a mere love tap to quell the raging storm that is Dan Hibiki!”
-Dan Hibiki


#20

"Everyone kept doing a poor job of attempting to secretly point and/or laugh at me after it was over, but it’s all good. I didn’t sweat or anything, I wasn’t salty (I also tried not to look it)"
You want me to fuck them up for you? I’ll do it free of charge. That’s just disrespectful. They are just jealous because you have the balls to play a joke character, whereas everybody plays “easy mode” characters.
Fuck them haters, we Dans are HARDCORE!
^Felt a little salty^