My introduction + a question


#1

Hey there Shoryuken forums. I’m relatively new here and I have some questions.

See I come from the competitive Smash scence, Melee, Brawl, Brawl+. I quit tourney Brawl though (shit sucks, haha). I’ve also had some experience with BlazBlue tourneys, sorta, and one Guilty Gear tourney. (I quit BB too, I prefer Guilty Gear way more)

Now about SF. I’ve been a big fan of the series for a long time, but I’ve never taken the time to sit down, play, and figure out anything. With me being interested in playing SF4 again, and SSF4 coming out on my birthday, April 27th, I’m pretty excited and hoping I can learn as much as possible with SF4 before Super comes out.

Not my questions:

  • How do you figure out which attacks of a character link and are special cancel-able? See, coming from GG, BB, TvC, MvC, Smash, etc I know that there are less attacks, but it is somewhat easy to figure out what combos into what, and what is special cancel-able. The internet helps with that too, but SF’s got a lot of attacks, and it feels much harder for me to figure out what actually links, combos, resets, is special cancel-able, etc. Even if I have the training computer set ot auto-guard to block “non-combos”.

  • How should I, a beginner, start his practice? I know things like the notations, most acronyms for attacks, Ex: SPD, DP, QCF, NJ.FP, etc, so that’s something.

  • What attack beats what, and what is useful for that situation. That might just be something that I have to figure out on my own against other people, but, for example, there are so many normals that can be done in the air, yet I only really see the longer-range looking kicks used, probably for cross-ups. Are the other jump-ins just bad?

And if this helps, I’m interested in: Gouken, Abel, Akuma, and Dan. I’ll figure out more some other time.

Thanks for the help guys. Happy to be here, and be playing Street Fighter finally. :rofl:

EDIT I also forgot to ask: how do you know what attacks are FADC-able, and what is the command that you normally do to do them in a combos? Attack, -> FADC -> whatever combo?


#2
  1. Definitely hit up the character specific forums for the “what links into what” and “what cancels into what” questions. Every character should have a “combos” thread where all of that is discussed in detail. SF is more about links than some other games that focus on chains, but SF has both and it DOES matter how you perform some combos (link vs chain).

  2. First, work on mobility and basic execution. Get very comfortable with dashing, the focus attack mechanism, and learn 4-5 “BnB” combos for your character. That is a good start to put some tools in your character’s toolkit.

  3. Yeah, this really does come from just playing. One tip is that when it comes to air to air moves and “what beats what” jump ARC is very important. Even if you jump at me with an air attack that has a long extended hitbox, I will often be able to jump and beat you with a shorter attack because you jumped first, so I’m coming up from UNDER you where your attack doesn’t extend. Dictator’s jump strong and Chun’s jump fierce are great examples of air to air moves that OWN many air moves with longer, more extended hitboxes.


#3

Most SF players learn from reading shit online. They don’t figure this stuff out on their own.


#4

Pherai, this response is more for the new players, I know this is nothing new to you:

True, but even with SRK and all the resources…you still gotta read about something and learn how to actually make it work in a match.

As much as a lot of people here would like to think otherwise, simply reading about shit can’t make you a solid player. Solid theory fighter maybe…

The day of players sitting down and actually figuring this stuff out for themselves is kinda dying/dead…but the upside is that this exchange of information helps everyone reach their potential sooner.

No matter how much you learn/read…everyone hits that wall where the only way to get better is to play and play and play. This information exchange gets people to that wall quicker, imho.


#5

You also might want to check out www.eventhubs.com . They also have a few newbie and intermediate tutorials for SF4.


#6

1: You like GG but not BB? I like you already.

2: I have a little glossary stickied in this board with a lot of basic (and some not so basic) terms you can use as a reference.

3: For links, if move A is +X frames on hit, and move B starts up in <X frames, it can link. There’s a little more to that (meaties, counter hits, etc.) but that’s the basic principle. Again, see the glossary for the definitions of those terms.


#7

Character specific forums should have basic and advanced combo threads which will cover your first query.

Regarding practice, in my opinion too much theory and not enough practical application can be a hindrance, so once you read up on say, your character’s main BnB combo, go practice landing it in training mode and preferably against an opponent after that, whether it be CPU, online or sitting beside you, whatever your resources can accommodate.

Some attacks while beat others in some cases but not in others, all I can say is to read up on any threads on the character forums to see if you can glean any info about that, but nothing really compares to learning what beats what through trial and error while playing, and this also adds to your ongoing matchup knowledge which is integral.

You can FADC a helluva lot of attacks in SF4, some which are useless, others which are part and parcel of your character’s malaise of abilities, same as before, character specific forums should have threads dedicated to combos including FADC combos which should point you in the right direction.

Myself and this rapidly depleting bottle of pear cider bid you a good day and happy hunting in the fertile grounds of SF4, may your combos be long and your throws unteched.

Edit: Jebus my wpm must drop terribly while inebriated, allowing these brigands to interject with their sound logic and wise words!


#8

@Parabellum: Alrighty, good to hear. I’m usually the kind of guy who doesn’t like to play a fighter without the basic knowledge/combos of what his character can do. I’m gone to some of the character forums, but I’ll go there and look in more detail asap.

Any info on how I can determine what attacks cancel into FADCs, or would that also be character specific? I’d wonder if it’s a universal thing.

Also, are there honestly any attacks that are just straight up bad, and shouldn’t be used ever? Personally, when looking at a lot of characters’ NJ/BJ/FJ.lps, I’d think that they’d never be useful, outside of a possible jump-in tick throw???

About the Bison/Chun jumping fierce thing, would there “not-priority priority” be good because those attacks’ hitboxes are big? I’m going of of the EventHubs article “Understanding hitboxes”.

Thanks for the help, by the way. :rofl:


#9
  1. Every single normal and special move your character has, has a purpose. Even the overtly shitty moves have a purpose, its just that the situations where that purpose is achived are SO rare, you may as well forget that the move exists. A perfect example is Chun’s DF + short. That move is hot garbage outside of some VERY acute situations that are so rare…you are fine to forget the move exists.

  2. Absolutely every FADC situation is character specifc, and there are tons of situations that LOOK like they should work but do not. A perfect example is Rose’s reflect > FADC > soul throw. She passes RIGHT through her opponent, the soul throw SHOULD catch them, but it doesn’t because capcom hates me (Ono, I’m looking at YOU. >_<).

Another example is cammy’s cannon spike > fadc > ultra. She can only juggle with ultra off an FADC’d cannon spike if she BACKdashes out of the focus. That is 100% counter intuitive, but despite how it looks, if she uses a forward dash, its a guaranteed whiff, even in the corner. That is the kind of thing you are going to learn in the cammy subforum that will save you a few hours of going “why the HELL does that not juggle??? It looks like it should!!! ARGH!”.


#10

Almost every move in the game can be FADCed at some point of its duration. Typically as long as you’re still on the ground (like early in a Shoryuken as opposed to once your character actually leaves the ground) you can do one. There’s nothing like an FRC from GG in SF4.


#11

Well, welcome.

Training Mode and Challenge Mode normal trials(if you have it on PC, PS3 or Xbox). Normal Trials will be very helpful just to show some normals/specials and how they operate (although some of the Hard Trial combos can be pretty high risk/low reward). Training mode (set dummy to auto block)will let you find the links and cancels that you are wondering about.

Match-Up knowledge as Parabellum noted, that comes from playing (and losing) and adapting. You will most likely find a simple BnB and mixup that you like, and it will work OK until you get straight up walked on. That is when you adapt.


#12

This is for the posts that appeared right before mine while I was typing, haha.

Other posts: Haha, all of your posts came while I was typing this one so I didn’t notice right away. Don’t worry, I do indeed go to EventHubs all the time. I <3 that site.

Oh, and I have it, or did have it, I’m trying to play it as often as I can, on Ps3.

HBRD, I think GG is way way over BB. ;} I got really tired of having, maybe, one BnB combo that I repeat over and over until I win. It was boring. I like the music though, haha. But GG’s music is cool too.

See, one thing, like I mentioned/didn’t mention, haha, is that unlike a lot of beginners, I come prepared with a lot of understanding, for the most part, of fighting game basic knowledge and what not. I read up things all the time, as well as watch videos.

And any and all advice that is still to come is appreciated. Thanks very much, guys. :rofl: I’ll try my best to learn well. =]


#13

Oh thank you, I didn’t mean to downplay the importance of playing :wonder:


#14

Hmm, good stuff from the Basic Glossary thread, HBRD. If anything, I’d like to ask if you, or anybody, could describe to me option select more in-depth. Oh, and I don’t remember FADCing using 2 EX bars. Has it always? Now I feel dumb.

Oh, and I don’t think I saw it, but should Triangle Jumping be added to the glossary?


#15

FADC is a brand new mechanic in SF4.

An option select is when one set of inputs will cover multiple possible outcomes, in your favor.

Best example is the option select tech.

Input: DB + short + jab. (Also can be written as DB + throw).

How it works:

If you use OST (abbreviated from Option Select Tech), what YOU do, will depend on what your opponent does.

If he:

Attacks - You block

Throws - You tech his throw

Anything else - Your OST turns into a crouch short.


#16

Parabellum, that’s quite interesting. I’ll have to test that sometime, but let me ask to be sure.

When looking at that option select video: [media=youtube]tnXYcNgLE5M[/media] at 4:43, Gouken’s for example, the top says "safe jump demon flip kick option select hurricane. Then at the bottom are the dominant/subordinate options.

Now, are those what Gouken would do by himself, like you said before, regardless of what I input, after I input the first required things? Also, I can’t tell, but what would have been that Gouken’s input to get to that point? That part I’d really like to know.

And are there more option selects then just what is shown in this video, by chance? If so, how does one go about finding them?


#17

I’m not a gouken player but I believe the input would be this:

f, d, df + K, qcb + short. (maybe qcb + jab + short I’m sure a gouken player could correct me here)

So you get the flip kick with DP + kick, and then RIGHT as he is landing/hitting/whiffing, you input the qcb + short. If I interpreted that paticular option select correctly, if you hit with the flip kick, the tatsu kick does not come out, but if you whiff the flip kick (because they backdashed, as an example) then the tatsu kick comes out immediately upon landing and catches their backdash.

An example that I do know is with Chun. She can do jump in fierce and option select Hasanshu as she lands. If they backdash out of the fierce, she immediately does Hasanshu which catches their backdash. However, if the fierce hits (hits means it either hits blocked or hits unblocked), then she just gets a second fierce hit.

The input for this is j.fierce, hcb + taunt.

There are quite a few option selects out there for each character (some more than others…Ryu and Chun have quite a few, boxer has a really good one that catches backdashes too), you just need to start going in depth about the character in question.

One thing I will mention is that offensive option selects are an advanced technique, and you want to walk before you can run. I would kinda keep them in the back of your mind until you get all the fundamentals down, then start exploring them.

Offensive option selects are really good when paired with safejump setups.


#18

Alrighty. Well, the only reason I ask is because I’d wonder how one even comes about thinking that x move can be option selected into x move in the first place. I think that the frame advantage making a link work makes sense, but I just don’t see how one can figure out what makes for an option select. Maybe it relates to frame advantage in some way? Ah well.

Well let me ask then, is option selecting even something that has a visible cue? I mean, do the pros actually use it?


#19

At a high level, option selects are used pretty often, the problem is that to the onlooker, you will never know they did one.

There are clues if you know what to look for, but you can’t SEE the difference between a smart option select and a lucky guess (most of the time).

I know that Daigo uses some of Ryu’s option selects, specifically the one that starts with jump fierce and ends in a DP if they backdash out. Against Rufus I know I have seen him stuff Rufus’ dive kicks with crouch strong, and that COULD be the crouch strong option select that Ryu has against Rufus specifically…that one option select can change that match SUBSTANTIALLY if the Ryu player can consistently pull it off.

As for how they are discovered…they are found by high level players who know how to exploit the subtleties of the game engine.


#20

The strength of OS’s is that you need no confirm.

^ read Parabellum’s post.