My match againts Vangief


#1

Ok so I don’t know if any of you guys saw the match I had with Vangief on the main screen but if you did, then you saw him body my rog hard. Before the match I was pretty comfortable playing againt giefs but his gief was way too different. He slowly walled me in the corner and beat me in footies untill so I couldnt push him back. What can I do againts a gief like that when no one even plays gief the way he does? Advice please?


#2

I didn’t see your match and I’m not even sure who you are, but he probably outspcyched and outfootsied you like he was doing everyone else. if you can pull up a vid I can help you more


#3

Was your fight on the stream? (Were you on the stage?)

If not then it’s kinda hard to help you but chances are he was just beating you in footsies like he did everyone else. He played a really unique Gief which is probably why he made it so far.


#4

I only had one match on the main stage and my tag is BeejayisCool. He really did psyched me man. He totally messed up my game plan and it was all over from there. I was clueless and super nervous.


#5

I only had one match on the main stage and my tag is BeejayisCool. He really did psyched me man. He totally messed up my game plan and it was all over from there. I was clueless and super nervous.


#6

Yeah his gief was amazing. How can anyone know the match up with a gief that has a very individual playing style?


#7

Yeah his gief was amazing. How can anyone know the match up with a gief that has a very individual playing style?


#8

Im sorry for posting twice guys lol. page keeps reloading


#9

i’ll have a huge post for you later on today beejay, it’s way too big right now and i need to make it smaller and quick to the point


#10

Thanks man. I really appreciate it!!!


#11

Thanks man. I really appreciate it!!!


#12

i apologize ahead of time if I’m going back TOO far and accidentally treating you like a newbie.

for the nervousness problem, a good solution would be to train using your playstyle long enough so that it becomes second nature. it should be a comfortable, fast, and effective kind of autopilot. but you also have to be VERY familiar with what you’re doing and why you’re doing it so your fast playing isn’t skewered by a bad sense of judgment. a good way to train for this is to imagine that you’re trying to do a speedrun on a human player. after you’ve achieved the autopilot playstyle I described, you should play under pressure if you can so you can get used to it. create pressure for yourself if you have to. one great way is to randomly money match people… if they don’t wanna play for money, tell them you’ll be the only one putting money on the line. if you don’t wanna do that, another one is to secretly play best 2 out of 3 with your opponents like you’re already at the tourney. the training combined with learning how to play under pressure will help you develop nerves of steel. the better your training goes, the better you’ll be able to play while nervous. for instance if the training has blessed you well enough, there’ll be no difference between your play while nervous and your play while totally calm. eventually, nervousness will just flat out disappear altogether.

for the psyche part… basically, you get psyched out cause there’s something you don’t understand about what they’re doing. you need to understand what goes into what they’re doing before you can understand how to fight against it. exploiting your char’s strengths and hiding their weaknesses, having a goal for fighting your opponent & knowing your opponent’s goal for fighting you, having the game knowledge, being skilled, observing your opponent, & sound reasoning are all key for psyching people out. all of these combined will give you the ability to legally cheat at the yomi game, which is what’s important for these psyche battles. what I mean by cheat is that you’ll be able to win plenty of encounters with very little guessing. if you got all of these down, you can psychologically dominate (or at least fight against it).

exploiting strengths and hiding weaknesses is pretty self explanatory, know the things your char can do better than all the other chars in the game then capitalize on those things, be aware of their weaknesses and make it seem as if they don’t exist. it helps to know the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent’s char too (I don’t learn these myself). to learn of his goal for fighting you, just observe what he’s doing and what effects it gives off… you should automatically know exactly what it is if it’s highly effective and/or it annoys you. both are key signs that someone is manipulating you. your goal for fighting him is always to silence his troublesome shit while taking advantage of his char’s weaknesses. getting game knowledge & skill should be self-explanatory, even if it’s not you can get both just from playing the game. lastly, the most important part IMO, be sure to have sound reasoning cause that shit will tighten up every aspect of your game and help you to play VERY well. it’s also something that I think even high level players in America tend to lack.

full example of this from my point of view: (I play SF4 btw, don’t have SSF4). I’ve been playing Gouken a lot lately. dude seems great at doing high damage high stun combos so I go for those when I can. having ex bars makes him play MUCH better, he can do stronger combos, approach decently, and even defend himself better. gohadouken is an amazing tool for zoning players out IMO if you’ve got good yomi. on the downside, his normals aren’t great for poking, there is a range in which every move he has is totally useless (it’s what i’ll refer to as mid-close range), and he has trouble vs approaches, whether it’s by air or ground. so to exploit his strengths, i get as much meter as I can spamming gohadouken, zoning them out, challenging other fireballs. land those combos when I can and use the exs to keep up the pressure so that I can keep their stun bar staying high as i can. to hide his weaknesses, I have a tricky combo that keeps people on their toes, makes it so I can poke and pressure. I make that mid-close range non-existant. and for his approach problem, I try to limit what they can do to get directly to me using gohadouken and various tricks. so this is pretty much the shit I’m gonna be wary about no matter who I’m facing. when I get to the actual match, I’m gonna have to worry about more than just this stuff.

when i first started playing Gouken, first annoying thing I noticed when I started playing him is that people would jump attack me relentlessly. it was like I had a sign that said “I don’t have a shoryuken, jump in at me!” sign on me or some shit. and if they didn’t/couldn’t do that, then they’d approach by ground and attack that way which was equally annoying, especailly since it lead to another fucking jump. the second annoying thing I noticed is that after I get in close to them and jab 3 times, they will ALWAYS attack me back immediately afterwards as if they expect me to drop the block string, especially if they have the lead, then continue the jumping shit.

ok, so off the top, when I play Gouken, the goal my opponents have is usually to stay about mid-close range the entire fight. because I know their goal and have the game knowledge, I can predict some of the things they’re gonna try doing. if they are far away, they will wait for me to throw a fireball or throw some themselves, then jump forward/fireball move response (ex. demon flip, hazanshu, hurricane kick, ex blanka ball). if they’re mid range, their next move is to try and reach mid-close range asap. if they are mid-close range they will check my movements out to see if it’s ok to hurt me, then try to attack using aerials or a ground approach. if they’re close range, they’ll jab me out so that I’m mid-close range and go with the mid-close range plan.

because their goal is to get into that range, my goal is to booby trap theirs. I’ll make it hell for them to get into that range and have it so that even if they do hit me, they need to get my permission first. when they’re far, I build up meter with gohadouken. I will literally stand there forever and fireball spam every single shakunetsu (jump afterwards of course), ex blanka ball (block afterwards), and normal sonic boom there is until they get sick of it and approach or I have 2-4 meters. when they’re mid-range, I either walk forward (to push them out or set up damage), backwards (to coax approach), or vertical/forward jump (to fuck up the jump they’re gonna make). when they’re mid-close range, I hold my ground (actually, talking about this with you has helped me create a tactic that sounds better in theory, thank you for the opportunity). if they’re close range, unless I’m attacking first, I let them do whatever they want usually and then just tech their throws if they try any. if I attack first then I like to fuck with them with a few tricks. I like to purposefully fracture my combo string (3x cLP 2x LK) and lead them into believing that they can counter with shoryuken or something, then I punish their attempt. then I have another where one or two jabs out, then immediately low counter to catch their reaction jab. after I’ve trained them not to attack my low counter, I start throwing them or block stringing them out of the forbidden space till they get the balls to jab again.

now for the sound reasoning portion. sound reasoning’s very important because there’s a shitload of tricks and shenanigans that work on people because their game knowledge is based on assumption instead of fact. and I think if you disarm someone of their shenanigans, they’ll have no way to get some easy extra damage. for instance, there’s one set up I see plenty of high level pros get hit by all the time. Akuma players will throw an air fireball or 2, then come down and do an overhead. no American I’ve seen ever blocks the overhead. I think that’s because the assumption is to check the fireball to see when they block it so they can do whatever it is they want when it’s over. but because they’re watching the fireball, they get nailed by the overhead. sound reasoning should tell you to always look at Akuma because between him and his fireball, he’s the only one of the two that can alter the type of attack he uses. the fireball will always be blockable using either high or low guard, meanwhile Akuma can hit high and low. that trick is devestating for getting free damage vs people who don’t see and understand that. using assumptions though, something like that isn’t immediately understood and might even go invisible for the rest of that player’s life.

to go more into its importance, you can even take advantage of people’s solid tactics. each tactic has a hole in it if you look hard enough. the tactics I use for instance, vs a player who reasons well, that jab into counter trick could get me hit with a throw/SPD, make me eat a dry ultra, even get hit by an attack that has to be countered high. that’s because my assumption is that if they attack, it will be a low attack because they’re already crouching and don’t have any reason to stand up to attack. few people are gonna respond to some close range attacks by standing up and attacking. but as long as I can figure out how they’re getting over on me, there’s things I can do to get over on them. I could do 2 jabs then walk back and sweep to stop a throw, I could block or counter the ultra, I could use ex counter instead of low counter to avoid guessing whether it’s a high or low attack. these kinds of things will usually go unnoticed if used sparingly enough mostly because most players are thinking about other things instead of watching the game.

I think the reason you got psyched out might be because you’re not aware of the level of depth psyche battles reach. don’t be intimidated by someone doing stuff that works; stop it from working. if you can’t stop it from working, then take it away from them. if you can’t take it away from them, make them pay for even having it as an advantage. you’ll understand it yourself as you get the hang of it


#13

Hey thanks man. This helps me out a ton and to even write all of this just to help me out, I really really appreciate it and again my thanks to you for going into depth.


#14

I know matchups aren’t everything, but as a gief player myself Balrog is pretty easy to beat. Don’t get me wrong it is the player behind the character, but as a gief player I am just saying Balrog is pretty low on the list of characters I’m scared of. So I would imagine to a better gief player Balrog would be even easier. I play similar to Vangief to be honest except he is much better at those close pokes and more consistent with that green hand combo. As far as the while standing SPDs and even 720s while standing and mid pokes and the patience to let the opponent ruin themselves just because they’re scared of gief being so close it is a similar game.

I was hoping Vangief would have gone a bit further because Zangief is my favorite character. It’s funny too because I use a pad while playing Zangief just like Vangief, but I use a stick for everyone else in the game.


#15

You should become a fan of Vangief on facebook. Here is the link.

Welcome to Facebook

If that doesn’t work for some reason, you can search “The Robot, Vangief” fan page.

I’ve beaten Vance just once. He was T. Hawk and I was Blanka. Haha! Other than that, his gief is unbeatable unless you are Ricky Ortiz or Daigo. Justin Wong can’t beat him. Can you beat Justin Wong? If not, you’re shit outta luck!


#16

Best advice I can give you is to watch your replay, see where and when you went wrong and then next time you play, don’t do it again lol.


#17

“He walked me into the corner”

When you’re in the corner you are at a disadvantage, the first step to improving yourself is minimizing the time you are at a disadvantage. That means don’t let him walk you into the corner.


#18

@omfg

Thanks for that post even though it wasn’t directed at me. I learned a lot from it. I won’t be able to apply most of it yet since I’m still playing the mind games at a complete beginner level, but eventually I’ll be incorporating some of that into the playstyle that I’m working toward.