My one worry about SFxT - Timers. An argument for why they need adjusting


#1

Let me preface this with some information about me. I’m not a SFxT naysayer. I’m a huge Street Fighter and Tekken fan. I’ve been waiting for something like SFxT to come along since Namco first announced Namco X Capcom. I’ve been nothing but optimistic about this game since its announcement. When pandora was announced, I shrugged. When gems were announced, I was hype (except about the auto-throw-tech gems, but those fears have since been quelled). That being said, timers have recently come into mind as something that I’m EXTREMELY worried about, enough to make this post. I was watching this week’s WNF, and as Seth was asked about timers, he just laughed and said he heard the exact same things when MvC3 came out, and eventually it wouldn’t be an issue. I’m here to explain why I believe the situation is different, and why it needs to be addressed.

1. The math doesn’t add up.
Here’s a video of the two timers in action. http://youtubedoubler.com/3gV3

SF4 has the exact same timer as SFxT, but you have double the life to go through. I know some people will complain that this isn’t a valid argument, because people will be losing after only one character is done. However, I believe it is safe to say that on average, the average life totals will be at LEAST 1.5x as much, and more likely closer to 2x, because of recovery due to grey life. Despite this, damages in both games look fairly comparable so far, in which the DPS (damage per second) in SFxT may even possibly be lower. I know some of you will disagree with that statement, so here is evidence.

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SF4: 40%ish dmg, 6 seconds. And don’t tell me Fei Long is squishy, he has 1k, exactly average.

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SFxT: A very similar combo (few heavy hits into super) 40%ish (with an attack boost gem, mind you), 8 seconds. Against Ryu, probably also average health.

Based on this information, timers should be approximately 1.5x-2x longer. Even a 1.5x increase, while on the lower end of the scale, would go a long way in making rounds feel more comfortable.

2. It will become more difficult to have “close” or “patient” rounds.
You know what I mean. MvC3-type no XF pixel to pixel matches, or SF4 fireball wars with both contestants with a hit left. Hype matches. It might happen for the first characters, but getting all four characters down to low HP would probably leave you with like… 15-20 seconds max on the timer. If you’re behind, there’s no time for you to sit back for a little bit like in SF4 and wait for an opportunity to open. You have to attack at every possible moment you can. There’s no room for patience.

Let’s face it, in a close match, everyone likes seeing someone get the last hit in or KO, and no-one wants to see a time out. It’s an anti-climactic ending, and there’s no reason to increase the number of time-outs because the timers aren’t adjusted to match with the respective health totals. Yes I understand the purpose of having a timer, and why the tournament standard isn’t infinite time, but time outs should be the exception to prevent exceptionally long games from continuing, not the rule.

3. Casuals, casuals, casuals.
The main argument that I’ve heard against timers being too short is that eventually we’ll figure out how to maximize our damage, and the timers won’t be an issue anymore. However, the problem with this argument is it leaves out the vast majority of people who aren’t tournament players, and just want to play some games online. Nothing will be more frustrating and an instant turn off from a fighting game than if a large number of games are going to time out. If there’s an online option for infinite time, this is not a problem. If it’s like MvC3 and there is no option to play without infinite time, then this WILL become an issue for casuals. If we want this game to actually become something monumental, timers should not be adjusted so that professional players with the best possible combos don’t have to worry about timers, they should be long enough so that normal people can finish a round comfortably.

Again, I can’t stress enough how much I WANT SFxT to succeed. I think it CAN be the best game ever. If this change is made, I think it will make the game better for viewers and better for players. I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why the timers should NOT be lengthened, and I believe I’ve provided several reasons as to why they should.


#2

Remember when people said Marvel timers needed adjusting? Maybe you should stop using that week -2 logic.


#3

The matches will probably go by faster once people know what to actually do.


#4

Day 1 Marvel had timeouts nearly every match. Then the damage was “too high.” People will adjust. If they don’t, they’ll be left behind.


#5

Again, and maybe it was my fault for not highlighting this, but the timers are the exact same length as a game in which healths are significantly less. Rationally, you will have more timeouts than you would in said other game. I’m not denying that Marvel had those problems, and that things turned out fine, but my point here was to point out that they are not the same thing.


#6

Different damage output will equal out with different healths once people learn the game


#7

That was why I gave two very similar combos, both probably maxing out damage per second (low number of very hard hits into super). Ultimately these combos, due to damage deterioration, end up being the hardest hitting combos in Street Fighter games, as could be seen by many of the very long combos that happened throughout WNF. I didn’t have footage of the singles tournament, where several of these examples are shown, but they’re certainly there. In Marvel it’s a different story, as damage scaling normally doesn’t hit quite so hard.

Also, I’d like to know, why would you NOT want timers changed?


#8

-_- your over thinking this far too much, just because alot of the matches at the finger cramp tourament were time outs…dont mean anything actually…watch the armshouse stream or more recent play of the game, but again people are trying things out most of the time, and its every early, but Time outs are a Save guard that the round does end in a timely matter, at the Fightclub in SF me and a guy played a set without the timer and we said to ourselves…This is bad…because the last round took forever to end because we were both playing lame…and it pissed off the people behind us, so we set the timer back to 99 seconds. all during that night after those sets all my matches didnt even come close to a time out, and the matches i watched were just the same, people were doing damage and getting KO’s.

point is…even without having to read my wall of text, you should know better to judge this before the game is even out…If time outs ever become a problem then we’ll deal with it then. for now im sure figuring out the rules for gems is far more important >_>’


#9

It doesn’t really matter. Marvel has a timer that’s like 3x the length of SF4’s timer and there are STILL time-outs despite the fact that you could realistically kill an entire team in 10 or less marvel seconds. In whatever game you play, there will be timeouts. It’s just the nature of fighting games.


#10

This game also has much higher damage output on average than SF4 had. Don’t forget that.


#11

Have you watched the FingerCramp video for Hugo? He can do 650 damage with a very easy combo into super. That’s without power gems and shit. I don’t think the timer is going to be an issue at all.


#12

I say just calm down and wait for the game to come out first. If it still becomes a big problem like you think it could, then Capcom will patch it for sure.


#13

Wait and give it a few months, if it’s a problem just tweet to Ono

Fuck you for putting yUn in this game

whoops I mean

fuck you for putting shit time in this game.


#14

Don’t forget that, with the game’s comeback mechanic being super risky, it should be much easier to carry momentum since you don’t have to slow down and change your gameplan since your opponent gained meter for Ultra.


#15

We need to see how if it continues after some weeks of the release. Most people playing now still don’t know what to do (i never see anyone getting a combo after a launcher) and play the game like it is SSF4 (Ryus doing c.mk - hadoken the entire match)


#16

The ONLY reason I can see slowing the timers down is because the damn supers take ssooooo long. I remember ultradavid commenting on that during WNF. I think it was like almost 14timer seconds for a cross art and ~8seconds for a single person super. If anything though I’d wish that the supers were faster (I also hate how they change the camera angle for throws)

I suppose the advantage is that it means supers can nearly completely negate a gem activation.


#17
  1. This is a new system. People are learning as they play, so they don’t know how to maximize damage and things of that sort. The damage output will be higher than SSFIV. Half the combo launchers we see end with the tagged partner missing. There is much to be explored.

  2. Plenty of matches could end with someone never tagging out, or the second life bar remaining untouched.

  3. Realize that a regular match will take essentially 4 and a half minutes if each match had the timer run out in all three rounds or close to it in all 3 rounds. The average SSFIV match runs about 2 and a half minutes (through countless YouTube videos, that’s pretty accurate) for three rounds. That’s damn near double the time for a single match. Makes sitting in an endless lobby a whole lot longer, doesn’t it?

But truly, point 1. is all that really needs to be looked at. The timer’s are fine. Once the game is figured out, we won’t see so many time overs I’m sure. I understand your concern, but I think it will work itself out.

I think gems could play into the timer not being long enough. But again, we will half to see.


#18

i agree with this being the only reason i’m worried about timers. having said that, maybe its a way of balancing characters like gief/hugo in pandora mode, as it makes their supers useless if the super animation lasts longer than pandora mode itself.

in terms of time outs due to lack of straight up damage, i think there’s zero chance of this being an issue. vega can do ridiculous meterless combos for huge damage. and if vega can, i’m pretty confident that means the entire cast can.

i disagree with this…and it kinda goes against your original fear, although i understand what you’re trying to say. you mean it might be harder to play the in/out footsie game like 3s or sf4 as people will just suicidally go in for the kill, worried about a timeout. or if they don’t do that, it’ll end up being a lame fest. i think you’re over analysing it too much.

i think that both playing lame and rushing down will be viable in this game. rush down will be more prominent at first, but i’m guessing there will be gem load outs that really end up helping lame characters. timeouts will probably be harder to achieve than sf4, but easier than marvel.


#19

You just have to give this game more time. Its before the release date so there will be a lot of time outs just like MvC3. With the combinations of gems and high damaging combos yet to be found timers won’t be an issue at all.


#20

another thing i want to add that i heard seth killian mention. i’m pretty sure he said there’s a way to tag cancel the launcher itself, costing a bar, but bringing your partner in earlier than normal. this allows you to start your tag combo from a jumping position, or gives you more time to do more damaging combos.