My thoughts on mvc3 air throw


#1

Hello from a long time player in the fighting game world. My name is kogonagi and well I want to bring something that I am not sure has gotten a lot of attention in the past weeks. During the exploration phase that Marvel Vs Capcom 3 went through after release people clambered over multiple characters as top tier. Characters ranging from Ammy Sentinel Dante Wolverine Magneto Zero She-hulk Wesker Taskmaster and more were considered top tier. Now I bought the strategy guide and went round the list of characters trying to find the ones that fit my play style the best. Eventually I found my team(shuma doom skroll) but none of it had real good matches versus the what is currently considered good characters. Now it may seem that I make this complaint out of disrespect for practice and talent but I put in hundreds of hours of practice and play so I fell like I have a strong grasp on what good play looks like. After putting a lot of charter specific information together I found out what a major problem was: That c is the command for air throw.

First I want to go back to who I mentioned as top tier. Ammy Sentinel Dante Wolverine Magneto Zero She-hulk Wesker Taskmaster and others. Now what I want to show here is that the best skill to use for attacking your opponent from jump state with almost all of these characters is c. If you look at Zero Ammy She-hulk Taskmaster and Wolverine they almost never use A,B or S as the attack of choice from jumping state. For Ammy She-hulk Zero And Taskmaster it makes a lot of sense because it is the attack that crosses up their opponents. For Wolverine it is incredible good because it also has a high priority attack that causes ground bounce attached to it. Some people will argue that only bad wolverines will use dive kick a lot but that isn’t true. Watching this years EVO dive kick came out in force for both Noel Brown and pr Balrog. The reason it is so good to use is because that hitting down forward c not only uses your best attack to approach but it also option selecting throw at the same time. In many cases I feel that this is creating a large problem for much of the cast.

Characters like Jill, Modock, Doom, Shuma gorath, Ryu, Akuma and Spencer all attack from the air to the ground with buttons that are not c. This is not to say that they do not have a decent aerial attack that is the c button or that they lack good ways of getting in but it is more to make the point that their better pressure options are all on different buttons or command attacks they do not at the same time option select throw. This is the big problem because it reduces their attack options as well as makes them more vulnerable to air throws. Lets say that Ryu’s j. s attack was on j c instead. I could now, like Task or Zero j. c with Ryu and feel modestly safe that my opponent will not be able to do their normal air pressure and beat me out do to the fact that their attack is also a throw. I am fine with attacks beating other attacks or throws beating out attacks but I am less fine with people being able to try and do both things with out knowing which one they are actually going for.

Currently I have very few fix ideas for this problem. I have run it again and again in my head to try and think of a command or set of inputs to add to the game to create a better situation in which throws have to be more thought out(Viscant and Combo Fiend) and less mashed out (wolverine in general). One fix so far is to make air throw a command skill that is the same one every character something like S+A buttons or something else like a double tap of a button . This would require forethought into inputting the command for a throw. But this also leads into problems because any one who now approaches with a or s Spencer or Magneto or any other tri jumper can now get air throws from those by plinking the command. To fix that problem I thought of adding a throw animation that was very fast and hard to punish on the fly but still not free attack tacked onto a throw attempt. Another small thing to do would be to remove the ability for combos after throws and increase their base dmg. I am not a huge fan of this idea because it alters game play a large amount but at the same point it seems that throws are super important in how one wins in this game. I also understand that the command for air throw being S+A would inhibit some of the cast with actions using that command. But I feel like it only truly effects Captain America. But I do believe that this is a step in the correct direction for this game for multiple reasons mainly that it increase depth and reduces character power discrepancy.
Thank you for your time and wish to hear your thoughts on this idea.
Anything is welcome as a response, criticism or not.


#2

You are right that this is an issue, but Capcom seems to be rectifying it by making j.H worse for most of the cast.


#3

smh…


#4

I never thought of it like most characters best option of air attack is with C. Which gives them possibilities of random grab leading into “accidental” huge damage. The grabs are one of the most entertaining things in this game. I have seen some down right HILARIOUS completely unintended grabs lead to dead characters. I thought of making a short video to this. Those grabs are where you go cough cough bullshit cough cough

I always blamed hitboxes. Guess its both


#5

again i will say it every character is legit but not every team chris g air throw a lot with ryu and wesker and there air c is horrible.


#6

Can you structure this in a sentence that is readable?

Also, I hate two button throws.


#7

I think you are absoutely right that Air Throws in this game are ridiculous due to this option select technique. It should be also noted that since you can tech throws by mashing C. Good jumping Cs are also option select for getting air throw techs at the same time as well. This means that Ammy could be grabbing you, teching your throws, and attacking at the same time. Not to mention that air throws are 1 frame attacks, so they can beat out of a lot attacks because of how fast the move is.


#8

Meh, it’s a cheap game so I don’t really see much reason to change it. The work is way too much to change it in any meaningful or effective way. Most characters in the game have really good j.H’s or air dashes that can be plinked with H any way. Akuma can tatsu all day to stop throws and Doom can foot f+H or S foot dive to stop throw attempts also.

My brother plays Jill also and there’s very rare a time he isn’t mashing on H. Off her up forward teleports she can just mash on f+H all day and get 4 way j.H mix ups (since it hits in the back and hits overhead) into throw set ups or combos.


#9

Felicia has one of the best air throws in the game (IMO) but her atrocious j.C makes it risky to go for pending character positioning. Unfortunately she already has a difficult time dealing damage. She also has a glass jaw (tail?). I would rather her j.C be changed because air throws in this game make jumping back to block/escape mix ups much more risky (especially in cases like Wolverine where his response was derp kick)


#10

How about making throws techable at 2 points like in the old versus games? When you get grabbed and when you hit the ground.

Air throws are way too good right now, there’s no disputing that. It makes no sense that they lead to full combos. Couple that with X-factor and you get lots of unintential throws leading to death. Any aspect of the game that makes you go “oops I killed you” is questionable imo.

I know Marvel is supposed to be crazy and people love easy techniques with disproportionately large rewards, but when they give Magneto an air throw OS that leads to death and you can’t even mash out of the throw like in MvC2, shit gets dumb fast.

At the very least, they need to make the air throw range much smaller or give similar rewards to everyone who lands one, because not all characters benefit equally from this.


#11

I like air throws because I don’t even need XFactor to kill with them lol

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/0/0a/Feelsgoodmangreen.jpg


#12

as the op stated airthrows for certain characters are op in there current form… especially ammys and magnetos (ammys has ludicrous range magnetos can combo into tod from any position on the screen. 3rd worst offender is definitley wolvie who can straight up kill easily off of his airthrow. S+A is the perfect solution, as long as it doent cancel dashes, or keep the original throw command on the ground but make it S+A in the air… i dont mind getting tod’d from airthrows, i mind the OS it presents.

-dime


#13

I definitely agree that air throws(throws in general imo) need to be tweaked, I don’t mind the fact that characters can tod you from performing air throws, no what upsets me the most are the accidental resets sooo many characters get just my jumping and mashing h. Its really not fair, especially when not every character can combo off their air throw. I hope its one of the things they decide to tweak in umvc 3, I won’t mind them changing the command or something.


#14

s+atk doesnt work unless they change the input for a lot of moves (lightning attack, drillclaw, etc)


#15

They can easily have :s:+:l: for throws and leave :s:+:m: and :s:+:h: for anything else. Off hand I can’t think of any character who has different variations of the same move for :s:+:l:, :s:+:m: or :s:+:h:.


#16

I need my L+S for Focus/Bold Cancels. Anything else would feel weird.


#17

Agreed 100%.

This was something I wish CAPCOM would change for UmVC3 but it seems unlikely. I don’t really mind the ridiculous damage you can get off air throws, but the fact that not all characters have the luxury of that option select really sucks.


#18

Stop jumping at people at the wrong times.


#19

Only if you stop saying stupid shit.


#20

Solution : make every character the exact same.

~Balance~