Most safe jumps occur against a person on the ground. I don’t think any of Ken’s DP would make a difference in that case. The only way it can counter a safe-jump is if hit on the very first frame of the attack. I don’t think any of the three do (I can check the YogaGuide again to be sure). Thus, as long a move has some frames before actually hitting, you will always be able to safe-jump it, even if it is really hard to time properly.
According to the Yoga Hyper book, Ken’s feirce DP comes out instantly : the very first frame is a hitting frame. So yeah, it’s not possible to do a safe jump-in against a Ken who does a feirce DP on wake up.
Well, crikey! You’re absolutely right. Awesome!! Good to know!
Ok thanks to LM Akira at www.NeoEmpire.com , here are some translations from the Yoga Book Hyper:
- START OF ROUND SUGGESTIONS
i. HP fireball
iii. Wait to see what opponent does
iv. … to…
a) Crouching HK > LP fireball
b) MK throw or LP dragon punch
- CHARGING SUPER BAR
i. LP dragon punch
ii. Air hurricane kick
- STRATEGY/TECHNIQUE/BLOCK STRINGS
i. Fireball (blocked) to…
a) (walk up?) Crouching HK > fireball
b) MK throw
c) (walk up?) LP dragon punch
ii. Cross up MK > crouching LK x 1-3 to…
a) Crouching HK > fireball
b) MK throw
c) LP dragon punch
iii. Crouching MK > crouching HK > LP or HP fireball
- BEST COMBOS
i. Jumping HK > close standing HP > LP dragon punch
- BEST WAY TO AVOID PROJECTILES
i. LP or HP fireball
ii. Vertical jump
iv. LP dragon punch (invincible frames on start up and hit, vunerable only in recovery)
v. Hurricane kick (use invincble leg to travel over sonic booms and grand tiger shots)
- BEST REVERSALS
i. LP dragon punch (note in “true” arcade ST, Ken can’t use his super as a reversal. If you time his super correctly as a reversal you’ll get the last special move you did. In PS1, SS and DC versions as well as HSF2:AE this glitch is fixed)
- BEST ANTI AIR
i. LP dragon punch (ground to air)
ii. HP dragon punch (ground to air, 3 hits and travels up on steep diagonal)
iii. Crouching HK (ground to air, close/medium distance)
iv. Vertical jump HK (air to air)
v. Close standing HP (ground to air, close distance)
vi. Crouching HP (ground to air, close/medium distance)
vii. Far standing MP or far standing HP (ground to air, medium distance)
viii. Crouching MP (ground to air, close distance)
- BEST CROSS UP
i. Jumping MK
ii. HK air hurricane kick (may land 1 or 2 hits, if you jump over the middle of your opponent you can perform this as qcf+K)
Now some of this information may well be mistranslated. For example, that suggested “best combo” won’t actually connect. But it’s nice to see the rest of the stuff none the less.
BTW, it would be cool if we could make a list of practical combos. Here is a decent Ken Cross up combo:
Cross up MK, Cr.mk, QCF + MK (Hold MK for 2nd hit), Sweep.
I have to say that this combo sometimes causes me problems, the enemy seems to escape the 2nd hit of the QCF + MK. If someone could tell me what I am doing wrong, it would be appreciated.
Golden Gunman: to answer your question, don’t hold FK for more than 2 frames (the cpu negative edges it so it thinks you input a kick again).
Ken’s “funky” Kicks:
HCF + K Roundhouse, great anti-air, high priority, creates distance btwn opp.
F-DF-D + K Outside Crescent (actual name), good combo finisher
QCF + K Inside Crescent, same properties as #2
Note: if you hold the kick button for too long the kick (1,2, or 3) will “cancel” into ax kick motion. This is useful if you are using anti-air with #1 and mis-time; you can hold it and gain a couple extra frames.
As of now the Air Hurricane (AH) trajectory chart hasn’t been translated so I’m going to attempt to explain how the A.H. system works. The system is based off the height of your jump when you execute the AH.
AH b/f or after peak of your jump in either diagonal direction. Mathematically the engine tells the cpu to use the tangent of the parabola at the time you execute AH (tangent of a parabola is a straight line) and then “carries” the parabolic curve in the tangents slope.*
AH right at moment of leaving ground in diagonal direction. This is the “Juice kick” it requires very fast input of AH in the first few frames of the jump (this requires practice to be able to pull off 100% of the time).
AH striaght up (cpu still treats this as a parabola) if you input @ peak it will revert to part 1. If you input immediately after leaving ground it will juice kick in short distance. If you input in middle of jump it will shoot you up high.
AH connects up to 3 times on large/tall opp. and 2 others.
AH can be used in combos.
AH can be used at anytime after a air normal has connected (any normal it doesn’t matter).
AH can be used as a cross up.
Jump straight up RK (right after leaving ground) into AH. This setup allows you to get a 2 hit combo and brings you back down quickly while still spinning. Pretty good trick for mix-up game.
- note: this is the best way I can explain how the jumps work, it requires mathematical knowledge that can be found on wiki (look for derivative). If anyone sees something wrong or that could be added let me know.
N. Ken is a fast, flashy, offensive character. Being mainly offensive you have a lot of options as to mix ups, combos, set ups, and traps. Being able to lock down your opp. making them constantly guess is vital to your success. Juice kicks are a must if you’re going to use ken (imo it’s almost as useful as a teleport due to the speed). Being patient is the key to ken’s speed, this allows you to react quickly to an opponents attack. Being able to perform all combos on command is very important to ken’s game (messing up a combo can lead to death very quickly so use them wisely).
Know your opp. i.e. if you’re playing against other shoto-like characters use AH sparingly (I’d say never attempt anything except juice kicks unless you’re trying to escape then use a “reverse” juice kick), use c.FK, and c.short in diff. combinations with the crescent kicks. Use RH(special) when they attempt jump ins (you must be quick, use immediately after they leave the ground). If a character throws a hadouken and your close use a crescent kick and hold (this will cause you to be “behind” the fireball) if timed right you’ll hit them with the ax kick. Use Ken’s s.RK (has great range) to advance and cause a considerable amount of damage. Ken’s F DP is the best for damage but if missed leaves you wide open. Use fireball’s to get the opp. to jump in; here you can either DP, juice kick or wait and as they land use RK. Use Jab DP on wake up. Be very careful when deciding to jump in on shotos (use the juice kick to jump in).
Note: for O.sagat juice kicks are your best friend, watch for tiger knees on opp. wake up.
If you’re playing against throw characters (gief t.hawk) keep them grounded with a mix up of hadoukens. For gief stick with kara canceling jab into hadouken (this enables faster recovery) in case he uses his banashing punch. You can also use c.FK, and s.RH to keep them at bay. Watch very carefully for tick throws on wake up (there’s no gaurantee they’ll do one and if you use a DP reversal they’ll punish you severly) in general they probably won’t use one on a shoto character. Not letting them within close range is vital to winning the match. Use a RK Hurricane kick to help create distance and counter opp. s.normals. If they get to close use a AH to get away safely (if in corner use jumping short or foward as anti-air then DP as you land then poke with c.FK if needed; c.RK can also be used). T.Hawk has a DP move himself so be conscience about it “the hawk” is suppceptable to most anti-air attacks except juice kicks.
I’ll add charge characters later.
Cross up FK, s.FP, DP+FP, ‘4 hits’ Instant Dizzy!!! Must be VERY meaty FK!
Jump in F, AH, c.RK 3 hits
Jump up RK, AH, c.Rk 3 hits
Jump in RK, s.FP, super
Jump in F, AH, c.Short, inside crescent RK 5 hits
Cross up FK, c.MP, Super 7 hits
Jump in F, Ah, c. short, Super 8 hits
Cross up AH, c.FK, Super 8 Hits
Juice Kick, c.Jab/short, super 7~8 hits
Cross up AH, c.MK, inside crescent RK 5 hits
Jump in F, s.F, F DP 4~5 hits (sometimes connects all sometimes not)
Jump in FP, s.FP, super 7 hits
c.Jab *2, st. Jab, super 8 hits
c.short *3, super 8 hits
Juice kick, st.FP, F DP 5~6 hits
c.jab *2, s.jab, DP+JP, 4 hits
what’s the joystick motion for standing fierce into super with N Ken?
Sorry, the combo should read as: Cross up AH, c.FK, Super 8 hits
ok, how do you not get a fireball to come out instead?
Timing is the key.
Ex. c.Jab, DF + .Jab, F, Jab, D, DF + P 8 hits (21300 pts)I’m SURE it’s possible now.
I’m sorry for the confusion but I had to be sure.
I’m using AE training mode, Gief as dummy.
The timing is similar to that of dic’s 10 hit combos.
Jump in FP, st.FP, Super 22500 pts. Pretty easy once you get the timing down.
I think you can do a similar “cheat” that Ryu can use to do his super, though both of these have to start with a jumping attack, not from the ground.
Jump at your opponent, do a fireball motion as you hit them with a punch (fierce) in the air, then after you land do a standing fierce followed by a fireball. Tada, standing fierce into super.
Alternatively, you can just do a standing fierce, then crank out the super motion quickly, and you can probably get it to land, but you need some skills for that.
D, D/F, F, slight pause, neutral+Fierce, D, D/F+punch.
It’s actually not that hard. The trick to it is getting that pause just right. Pause too short and you’ll get a fireball; pause too long and you won’t be able to do the super. Gotta get it just right.
Ryu’s st.Fierce xx super is a lot harder for some reason, despite the fact that it’s only one input longer than Ken’s. (Ryu has to follow through all the way to towards on the second QCF. Ken can stop at D/F.)
Ryu’s combo : (c.opp.) Cross up RK, f + FP, st. FP, super; is pretty easy. For some reason getting the timing down for ken’s jump in fp, st.FP, super took me longer to learn. Hmm…I still don’t understand why?
Good stuff. So how do you kara cancel jab into a hadoken, and can you kara cancel the jab into any speed hadoken, or just jab hadoken?
You can cancel any speed hadouken with short or jab which shortens the revovery time. Dn, dn + twds + jab/short, twds + P
^^ Thanks, great information BTW. Does this mean that if you throw a kara cancelled jab hadoken from full screen against ST Ryu and he throws a Shinkuu haodken in anticipation, that you can now block the super? One of the hardest things for me during a Ryu vs Ken matchup is that he bosses the fireball war, and when he gets super, you cannot throw a fireball period because otherwsie he supers you for free.
It will shorten the fireball by a couple frames. It will help a little teeny tiny bit from fullscreen, but… naw, you’re pretty much screwed.
Who’s the number 1 N.ken player? I would like to see some match vids. Thanks
Bad & good match-ups with N.Ken
I was wondering what N.Ken’s bad and good match-ups were. If anybody could help me with this I would appreciate it alot. Thanks.
Thanks for moving my thread to this one, this is good stuff here. I would say that the no.1 n.Ken player in the world would be Ani-Ken. If anybody would like to correct me on this then please do but ive seen match vids of his and he is amazing with him.
Another really good Ken player is M-tsun, the purple Ken player. I really like his style, even more fun to watch than Aniken, although I agree that Aniken is probably the better player.
As for hard match=ups, I find the greatest difficutly against Ryu and Sagat. These guys dominate the fireball war and in certain respects it’s case of “anything you can do, they can do better.” Ryu can be really dangerous as when he has super, even if he is full screen, if you throw a fireball, on reaction he can throw his and get you.
Good matchups? IMO Dictator is a good match-up, his lack of reversal (barring super) means that if you knock him down, you can jump in for free and set up Knee Bash mindgames. He also does not a particulary strong anti-sir, even his Jumping MP can easily beaten with a Air Hurricane.