Reversal move / throw is the only way to get out of any good tick throw setup in ST period. That’s why Knee Bash is so good, it’s often quite possible to win the round after landing one knee bash if you can mix-up well enough after it.
Although you could always counter the tick as opposed to the throw if you think it’s coming.
How about N Ken’s air hurricane kicks? There’s one version of the air hurricane kick that has a really short arc and is great for getting next to your opponent in a hurry. Is there any trick to getting the short arc air hurricane kick out?
Basically if you’ve ever played CvS2 then you should know what a short jump is. You can perform a tatsumaki kick while doing a short jump (there is no short jump in ST, however the timing is the same i.e. you can do a juice kick in CvS2), it’s very fast and difficult to do at first. It’s really easy once you get the motion down. All you need to remember is to never let your thumb (center of your thumb) leave neutral on the D-pad. As for using a J-stick it’s much easier, you just need to get the motion down. Do NOT practice doing the 225 degree motion in reverse (example Fei Long’s windmill kick or Sagat’s Tiger Knee), it’s faster to just tap up+towards and then QCB; this will also improve you’re accuracy.
I love that version of the AHK. I try to use his overhead for mix-ups after hisknee throw,j.jab ->AHK, or during a combo. I havent played much competitive ST yet. Is this an effective method, or is it easily countered?
Make sure you time the button presses so they are always the same length apart. The space you put between the first Short and the second Short should be the same space you put in between the second Short and the Short + Punch you use to activate the Super. It’s not a Buffer, so don’t do it quickly like a Buffer.
The Overhead kicks are useful only in a Blue Moon. They work REALLY well on people who aren’t used to them, but on most players, it doesn’t do much for you, especially if you abuse it. So save it for those key moments, like finishing someone off or hitting them when you know they are one hit away from a dizzy. One good tactic is that you can hit Gief with it as a Meaty at a range you cannot be SPD’ed! If you learn that distance, you can usually get a dizzy off of Gief if you land Jump Fierce XX Air hurricane Kick into Crouch Roundhouse. One overhead there will cause Gief to fall Dizzy a lot, and if they try and SPD, you land the kick for sure.
I saw a very interesting glitch for the first time. The CPU was Ken, I crossed him up with a Fierce Horizontal Rolling Ball, the CPU input the command for a RH tatsumaki at the same moment. I landed, and he hit me 1 time, bounced off me, and continued the same tatsumaki all the way to the other side of the screen (full screen)!
jump-in fierce/roundhouse->fierce AHK->crouching roundhouse (knock-down, frequent dizzy, difficult to time following a knee bash->jump in…for me at least)
jump-in jab->fierce AHK->cr. forward->fireball (the fireball will not combo)
jump-in jab->fierce AHK->cr. forward->crescent kick (crescent kick will not combo, and leaves you vulnerable to counter, but good for flash)
…and other, but you get the idea. For stricly finding additional usefullness for the jump-in short, a personall favorite is: jump-in short->cr. short->jab uppercut (3-hit, knock-down).
The “short arc” AHK (aka juice kick) can be performed by executing it very early in a jump. It is easier to do if “video slow down” is being produced, such as when a fireball hits an opponent, or holding jump forward while in move animation (such as a whiffed uppercut) then executing AHK as soon as jump animation begins. Timing is quite tricky.
Hey guys, just a question about KNEE BASH (still my reason for playing N Ken)
So let’s say I set up knee bash with a crouching LK tick. The opponent can get out with counter throw or reversal shoryu. What I’m wondering is, if I do crouching LK -> LP shoryu, will their shoryu get beaten out? If not, how can I beat their reversal shoryu attempt?
I’m also not having nearly as much trouble doing juice kicks now, my advice for anyone trying it is just do Upforward -> Back as fast as possible. My big problem (the reason I can’t really do it 100%) is because I often hit Up when I’m trying to hit Up-forward, and so I end up doing an “up” juice kick, which has a much narrower arc than the upforward one, and that screws me a lot. I love juice kicking over a fireball and knee bashing the fuck out of the guy who threw it. Yeah!
In the example you give, the opponent’s Shoryu, if timed correctly, will beat yours. That’s because they will recover slightly quicker than you. Your shoryu will beat their counter throw attempt, however.
What you want to do is vary ticks. If you always do cr. lk tick, throw, then mix it up with cr lk X 2 , throw, or finish the entire block string, like cr lk X 3, cr mk X Hadoken, etc.
One thing to also be aware of is that Ken’s MP throw has more range. Sometimes you can do like cr lk x 2 and be out of knee bash range, but still in range for that throw.
As GG already said if they time it right they can beat your DP. However you can delay in anticipation to beat or trade with their DP. That’s a bit too much thinking though and if you want to hit with the DP there are other setups.
Instead of a LK->knee bash you could do a couple of LK to put you slightly out of throw range. Now in order to throw you would need to walk forward just a bit. This is where the DP can play havoc with your opponent. Natural instinct for a player is to poke or counter throw when an opponent walks towards them. If you walk forward a bit->DP you will find it much like a psychic DP when you hit the counter.
It’s a decent option considering that if they do nothing and simply block Ken is fairly safe due to his fast DP recovery.
Basically the order of actions would be 2/3 LK->Slight pause(anticipating a counter DP, though you could skip)->walk forward a step->DP/or walk forward a step knee bash
Ok, thanks guys, I’ll remember that stuff. I got more questions.
Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?
How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can’t do it! Is there any special timing to it?
Yes Ryu can juice kick kind of. I find it not nearly as useful as Ken’s considering you can set up alot of different scenarios with Ken’s while Ryu’s just knocks them down. Ive done it randomly with both O.Ryu and N.Ryu.