Welcome to SRK. When the neg comes, the neg comes. Usually in shitstorm form. I just ignore it.
Yes Ryu can juice kick kind of. I find it not nearly as useful as Ken’s considering you can set up alot of different scenarios with Ken’s while Ryu’s just knocks them down. Ive done it randomly with both O.Ryu and N.Ryu.
The main thing Ken has over Ryu is relatively safe DPs. You can miss one at point blank and probably still be OK. That makes it a lot tougher for people like 'Sim to just stick out random normals.
I didn’t know that, I thought they were the same.
How safe are DPs on block? I know they’re really safe, but can anyone punish them on block?
Anywhere I can find frame data for ST?
I don’t believe anyone can punish Ken’s jab DP on block. Stronger ones can definitely be punished.
Yoga Book Hyper is the best source of ST frame data, though I believe there are sources around the Internet in various places.
What about Ryu’s dp?
Ken’s DP is hard to punish but can be punished still with a trip or a fast attack.
Ryu’s can basically be punished easily if you expect it and can always be tripped.
FYI, at the right distanace the the Jab is un-punishable. It will leave ken with a +1 frame advanage. Even if it is a little off, there are no normal moves in the game that are are fast enough to punish the DP at this distance… Even Dhalsims ducking forwards with a 2 frame start up can punish it, b/c ken is pushed to far away.
This is discussed/shown in the Yoga Book Hyper.
I’m not positive but I think there may be a couple of setups so that it can’t be punished.
At the rigt distance his jab DP is 100% safe.
Don’t get me wrong, if he is in your face, you can punish him afterwards.
But, if he is perfectly placed, you can’t punish him.
There are tons of videos showing ANTI-KEN , applying pressure this way.
I will be more than happy to post them up for you. If you like. :tup:
I think you misunderstood what I said?
And do you mean Aniken?
Yeah, I think he does mean Aniken…I’ve seen him do it, and it’s pretty cool. So it’s a spacing thing, got it. I’ll have to watch for it more closely.
Yep AniKen… My bad. :wgrin:
Does O. Ken’s fierce dp hit on first frame too? Looks like it doesn’t to me, but I could be way off.
Yes, it does hit on the first frame.
Thought I could get some facts on this…
I havent had much comp in ST for awhile but ive been practicing with Ken’s knee throw mix-ups/cross-ups/etc. If im crossing somebody up right after the knee throw and they input the DP command, will he turn around and DP or will he DP the opposite way. And of course, are cross-ups really safe? I havent seen any top players cross up after knee throw. All i see are tick throws really.
To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will “automatically” switch directions and counter your crossup.
Crossups are effective if you use them when you safe jump. For the most part IMO crossups with N.Ken should be used sparingly, if at all. Knee bash is mostly used with ticks or mix-ups.
Ah ok. I forgot to specify somthing though, these arent jump cross-ups, these are knee throw-> walk on the other side cross-up. Would the DP switch sides automaticlly? Sorry for that
Also in corners there are times when I jump in and appear on the other side off the player standing after the knee throw. Are those safe?
Strategy for DP still holds even though you walk under (it’s not easy or automatic, you have to time it as a reversal and input the reverse command).
No, basically they are not safe: The reason that you appear on the other side of your opp. is because you “pass over him” (i.e. you jump in after your first neutral frame with j.Short) while he’s in recovery frames he physically doesn’t move as far as you do when you jump (in pixels). Whether or not it’s safe depends on the character and skill of your opp. Bottom line is it’s not safe because the opp. will always land b/f you do (so even if you tried to make a safe jump you couldn’t), they’ll punish you accordingly if you try.