N Ken Thread


The main thing Ken has over Ryu is relatively safe DPs. You can miss one at point blank and probably still be OK. That makes it a lot tougher for people like 'Sim to just stick out random normals.


I didn’t know that, I thought they were the same.

How safe are DPs on block? I know they’re really safe, but can anyone punish them on block?

Anywhere I can find frame data for ST?


I don’t believe anyone can punish Ken’s jab DP on block. Stronger ones can definitely be punished.

Yoga Book Hyper is the best source of ST frame data, though I believe there are sources around the Internet in various places.


What about Ryu’s dp?


Ken’s DP is hard to punish but can be punished still with a trip or a fast attack.

Ryu’s can basically be punished easily if you expect it and can always be tripped.


FYI, at the right distanace the the Jab is un-punishable. It will leave ken with a +1 frame advanage. Even if it is a little off, there are no normal moves in the game that are are fast enough to punish the DP at this distance… Even Dhalsims ducking forwards with a 2 frame start up can punish it, b/c ken is pushed to far away.

This is discussed/shown in the Yoga Book Hyper.


I’m not positive but I think there may be a couple of setups so that it can’t be punished.



At the rigt distance his jab DP is 100% safe.

Don’t get me wrong, if he is in your face, you can punish him afterwards.

But, if he is perfectly placed, you can’t punish him.

There are tons of videos showing ANTI-KEN , applying pressure this way.

I will be more than happy to post them up for you. If you like. :tup:


I think you misunderstood what I said?

And do you mean Aniken?


Yeah, I think he does mean Aniken…I’ve seen him do it, and it’s pretty cool. So it’s a spacing thing, got it. I’ll have to watch for it more closely.


Yep AniKen… My bad. :wgrin:


Does O. Ken’s fierce dp hit on first frame too? Looks like it doesn’t to me, but I could be way off.


Yes, it does hit on the first frame.


Ok, thanks.


Thought I could get some facts on this…

I havent had much comp in ST for awhile but ive been practicing with Ken’s knee throw mix-ups/cross-ups/etc. If im crossing somebody up right after the knee throw and they input the DP command, will he turn around and DP or will he DP the opposite way. And of course, are cross-ups really safe? I havent seen any top players cross up after knee throw. All i see are tick throws really.


To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will “automatically” switch directions and counter your crossup.

Crossups are effective if you use them when you safe jump. For the most part IMO crossups with N.Ken should be used sparingly, if at all. Knee bash is mostly used with ticks or mix-ups.


Ah ok. I forgot to specify somthing though, these arent jump cross-ups, these are knee throw-> walk on the other side cross-up. Would the DP switch sides automaticlly? Sorry for that :slight_smile:

Also in corners there are times when I jump in and appear on the other side off the player standing after the knee throw. Are those safe?


Strategy for DP still holds even though you walk under (it’s not easy or automatic, you have to time it as a reversal and input the reverse command).

No, basically they are not safe: The reason that you appear on the other side of your opp. is because you “pass over him” (i.e. you jump in after your first neutral frame with j.Short) while he’s in recovery frames he physically doesn’t move as far as you do when you jump (in pixels). Whether or not it’s safe depends on the character and skill of your opp. Bottom line is it’s not safe because the opp. will always land b/f you do (so even if you tried to make a safe jump you couldn’t), they’ll punish you accordingly if you try.


hello all,

just returned from Mikado where I got served by a purple ken, who I later found out was Matsun. I haven’t played against aniken so I can’t speak on that subject of who’s better, but I can attest to Matsun having the prettiest ken I’ve ever seen. Its almost scary on what he can do with him. Several game notes:

  1. funk kick glitch. match was O. ryu vs ken, vega stage. Ken wins round by doing cr. strong into funky kick. ryu is killed by the 2nd hit of funky kick. usually the match ends here. BUT NO! ken does another full funky kick (half circle one I believe) and the button is held so that he does the axe finish. If anyone knows how to do this, how this is impossible, and if other characters can do it, I’d love to know. Again, a full funky kick was done AFTER the match was over, ryu completely laying in the waste pile, dead. I am positive that it happened and the player who was victimized also looked up and gave me the “wtf” face. I should have asked him how to do it, but he doesn’t look like the social type.

  2. juice kick combo. Even though he didn’t land it on me, apparently if you have amazingly fast fingers you can combo a juice kick off the ground by doing jump jab (instant) into juice kick. All three kicks of the juice air hurricane should land, with the jump jab, so 4 total hits. I saw it once in a combo video off sagat, but that was done using an emulator, and this is to be done with human hands. Its difficult enough to do a juice kick, but to add the jump jab in is near impossible. Try it yourself, half the time you can get the combo to work, but the arc of the ensuing Hurricane kick will not be in the juice kick arc.

  3. if you want to play n.ken competitively, master the juice kick. He cannot hold up his own without it in my opinion. ken is also master of the footsies game and is played extremely effectively by freezing opponents with fear of dragon punch. this will allow you to get your knee bash in.

anyways that’s it for now. Just want to say that while he’s not the best in the game, n. ken is definitely a really fun character to play with, and there is always something you could be practicing with him (st. fierce to super, juice kick etc).

also have a question.

To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will “automatically” switch directions and counter your crossup.

I’ve always wondered about this while playing ken. It seems like sometimes I will do a normal f, d, df +p and ken/ryu will automatically change directions for the dp. But if I read the above statement correctly, it says that you must change the last input to down-back. Can I get a confirmation on this? The reason why I ask is because I’ve never seen that notation before (and thus I’ve never attempted it) and yet on some occasions 50% I can get the anti cross up dp to come out just using regular dp notation.

to clear it up, if I am on 1p side, and I am getting crossed up by 2p jumping over me to the left. I have three choices

(all notation given as 1p side facing right)

  1. f, d, df
  2. f, d, db
  3. b, d, db (as if it were a 2p dp notation).

which is the correct notation to get a anti cross up dp (where ken turns and now does a 2p side dp on reverse)
If anyone could clear this up for me that would be great.



If you perform the regular dp motion any time b/f the opp. reaches zero barrier then you won’t change directions b/c you’ve input the command and the game engine is no longer focusing on where the opp. is. The game just executes the move and pays attention to the hit boxes. If you execute it after it breaks zero barrier like a reversal (i.e. as soon as opp. breaks zero barrier execute d/f+P) it will switch sides for you. Any input after time for reversal requires you to hit d/a+P; when you hit down it creates a neutral state for your character [i.e. no matter which side you face you still hold just 1 down] this neutrality creates the opportunity for you to change directions on the DP because the game engine is not focusing on which direction your facing; the game sees you as neutral this gives you more time to execute the DP. I hope this helps.

For the hcf+k (Roundhouse) coming out after the round here’s a possible explanation (it applies to your last question as well):
1st Conjecture: In order for any move to come out after the match was decided (vitatlity of 1 opp. reaches zero) that must mean there is some time left for input after the opp. dies (if what you say actually happened and wasn’t a game engine “brain fart”).
2nd Conjecture: I have no idea what special was used to kill opp. (I assume it was the inside crescent kick qcf+K, canceled into Ax kick/overhead)
3rd Conjecture/fact: Once you defeat your opp. the game engine ignores the side/direction your opp. is facing. [ex. You’re dic and you defeat opp. with H.S. dic will face the same direction (victory stance) no matter which side you decide to land on]
4th Conjecture: The inside crescent and Rounhouse funky kicks will cross up the opp. if you perform the Ax kick (hold K or tap K again while the special is in motion).

Very confusing b/c question said Ryu was laying completely on ground (how there could be this many additional input frames/time baffles me).

Yes the combo you mentioned in #2 is possible w/o emulator, but only works on Sagat, Gief, Hawk b/c they have large hit boxes. Definately master the juice kick; it’s Extremely useful. Check my other posts in this thread for more info on Juice Kick.

to be continued/edited…