Nadeshiko Megathread: V-Trigger resets, set-ups, combos, unblockables, etc

r-mika

#1

I think it would be worthwhile to compile all the useful information about Mika’s V-Trigger in one place, as it’s one of her most powerful tools and has several different applications. It’s also the part of her game that I’m looking to maximize for myself right now, so I thought I’d get started on putting this stuff together for my own use. This post is a work in progress. I’ve started by compiling a handful of different videos. I’ll be going through them later to try and clean out what might be redundant, then talk in detail about the rest. I figured that I’d go ahead and post what I already have in the meantime. Feel free to add any input you might have.

Some of this might be a bit more wordy and exhaustive than it needs to be, but that’s sort of the point.

UNBLOCKABLE AFTER GUARDED c.HP

[no video yet]

This one’s pretty simple: crash into the opponent with a c.HP, then immediately V-Trigger cancel (Above). If the c.HP hits the opponent, just continue with the combo. If the c.HP is blocked, then use a command throw just as the opponent’s blockstun ends. In many situations, most opposing characters MUST take either the throw or the Nadeshiko hit. Some have reversals that can break out of this setup (Shoryuken, etc.), but most characters almost always suffer a penalty if they try to escape but guess wrong, and there are many situations where the opponent must take at least some damage even when using their best option. If you use c.HP from closer range, you end up right next to the opponent after the VT cancel and have more follow-up options.

c.HP (hit) xx Nadeshiko (Above), c.LK, dash forward, (Nadeshiko hits,) [s.MP if close,] Passion Press, wall bounce combo

If the opponent fails to block c.HP for whatever reason, then just poke his legs after the VT cancel and dash in for a follow-up while Nadeshiko pins him down. Depending on how far away you were when you hit him with c.HP, you may or may not be able to add in an s.MP before Passion Press.

c.HP (blocked) xx Nadeshiko (Above), command throw at end of opponent’s blockstun

The basic unblockable setup. You should time the throw so that it makes contact with the opponent immediately after his blockstun ends so that he has no time for any kind of reversal or escape (barring situational or character-specific invincible options). The closer you are to the opponent, the better, as that determines which throws you can use. Mika’s throws, in order from most range to least range:

EX Rainbow Typhoon (220 dmg, 250 stun)
L Rainbow Typhoon (160 dmg, 200 stun)
M Rainbow Typhoon (170 dmg, 200 stun)
H Rainbow Typhoon (180 dmg, 200 stun)
EX Brimstone (180 dmg, 200 stun)
L Brimstone (130 dmg, 150 stun)
M Brimstone (140 dmg, 150 stun)
H Brimstone (150 dmg, 150 stun)

[Note: Where exactly does her normal throw fall in this list? I think it’s at roughly H Typhoon range but would appreciate if someone could double check.]

If you perform c.HP at point-blank, you’ll be in range to use any of these throws. If you perform c.HP at max range, you might have to inch forward a step afterward to get anything to connect at all. Know your ranges.

The other factors in your choice of throw depend on whether you have an EX bar to burn and whether you want to keep the opponent in front of you or behind you. All versions of Brimstone keep the opponent in front of you and at close range. EX Typhoon always tosses the opponent behind you and far away. Normal Typhoon does the same, but will keep you close to the opponent if you were cornered beforehand.

If the opponent tries to walk backward out of this setup, he will be caught by EX Rainbow Typhoon unless you performed c.HP from too far away. If he tries to V-Reversal out of this setup, you can input the command throw more quickly to catch him before he escapes. The only two characters who can reliably escape this setup with their V-Reversals are Vega and Cammy. Vega’s V-Reversal is fully invincible until its very last frame. Cammy’s V-Reversal is vulnerable to throws for the first 5 frames, but in order to catch it, you must gamble and input the throw preemptively, as you do not have enough time to perform it on reaction to the V-Reversal. All other V-Reversals can be reliably stuffed on reaction if you are quick enough.

If the opponent attempts to dash backward or jump, your throw will whiff, but the opponent will be knocked out of the sky by Nadeshiko, taking 100 damage for a soft knockdown. There is one exception: Necalli can safely dash backward and escape the setup cleanly if he has already activated Torrent of Power (V-Trigger).

Not all characters have other escape options, and most of those who do have to spend meter to use them. The four characters who can escape this setup at no cost are Necalli (H Raging Light, EX Raging Light), Ken (M Shoryuken), Ryu (M Shoryuken, EX Shoryuken), and Cammy (any Cannon Spike). All of these uppercut attacks will knock Mika away and bypass Nadeshiko completely.

Four more characters can escape this setup at the cost of 1 EX gauge: Chun-Li (EX Spinning Bird Kick), Rashid (EX Spinning Mixer), Zangief (EX Screw Pile Driver), and Birdie (EX Killing Head). Chun-Li and Rashid’s options are Shoryuken-style reversals, while Zangief and Birdie’s are command throws that bypass their opponent’s throws, thus grabbing Mika and avoiding Nadeshiko. If Karin tries to use her invincible reversal (EX Ressenha) to escape, she’ll successfully knock Mika away, but Nadeshiko will still hit her.

Nash can escape by using his V-Trigger, Sonic Move. Various frame data sources suggest that this technique is only invincible from frame 2 onward, but while I have been able to hit him with a normal attack on frame 1, I have yet to catch him with a throw. I am not sure whether this move has throw invincibility on start-up or my timing is poor. [Can anyone check this?]

If Ryu or Alex successfully parry Mika’s initial c.HP, either one of them can hit Mika with a follow-up throw of their own and avoid Nadeshiko completely. (Ryu has other escape options, noted previously, while Alex has nothing else outside of his Critical Art.)

Four characters can only fully escape this setup with their Critical Arts: M. Bison, R. Mika, Laura, and F.A.N.G. Any other action they take will lose to Mika.

Dhalsim in particular draws the shortest straw. If he’s forced to block Mika’s initial c.HP, then nothing in his toolset can get him out of this situation. His Critical Art will hit Mika, but he’ll still take the trade from Nadeshiko. This is a trade that’s in his favor as far as the damage output is concerned, but if he’s within KO range, he’s done.

Ryu, Cammy, and Vega’s Critical Arts will also trade with Nadeshiko, and Cammy and Vega in particular come out on the bad end of that trade (their Critical Arts are interrupted, thus inflicting much less damage), but all three of these characters have better escape options anyway, as noted previously. All other Critical Arts will beat this setup cleanly.

Anyway, that’s the first layer of this setup. Regardless of which throw you use after the VT cancel, it will inflict 130 to 220 damage and 150 to 250 stun. On the other hand, Nadeshiko inflicts 100 damage and 100 stun, regardless of which V-Trigger variation you use. Simple risk and reward means that informed players will either dash back or jump out of this setup, intentionally taking the hit from Nadeshiko so that they can avoid the throw. That’s when the next layer comes in:

c.HP (blocked) xx Nadeshiko (Above), c.LK (low check hit), dash forward, (Nadeshiko hits,) [s.MP if close,] Passion Press, wall bounce combo

This is the exact same combo used in the c.HP hit-confirm earlier. If the opponent blocks c.HP, then attempts to walk, back dash, or jump away, the c.LK will clip his legs before he can move, and Nadeshiko will pin him down long enough for you follow-up with a combo. This works against every character in the cast, regardless of your spacing on c.HP. Spending meter to end this combo with EX Wingless Airplane nets you 325 damage and 465 stun. You can opt for enders that give you better corner carry or a mid-screen reset at the loss of some damage; either way, you’ll still be doing at least as much damage as a raw EX Rainbow Typhoon.

http://sixfortyfive.com/temp/nadeshiko01.png

This changes up the risk/reward considerations for both players quite a bit, so you should give some thought into all possible scenarios. The right column is only relevant if the opponent has a legitimate reversal. The damage values listed can probably range a little lower or higher than what is shown. This is just what I typically get out of these setups based on my typical considerations (meter spent, corner carry, mid-screen reset, crush counter punish for V-meter, etc).

Up next are some setups using different versions of Nadeshiko, which I believe offer more guaranteed damage at the cost of some potential damage when compared against the previous setup.

MEATY / UNBLOCKABLE AFTER HARD KNOCKDOWN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvXpUJu6CPU

UNBLOCKABLE AFTER MID-SCREEN WALL BOUNCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTgFUDqOhkk

UNBLOCKABLE AFTER CORNER RESET

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssEMIjXY5yk

In these 3 videos, the Front and Behind versions of Nadeshiko put the opponent in a lengthy spinning knockdown state, which does not allow you to get as much damage from them as you would from an optimal neutral VT, but it also gives you enough time to follow up after a whiffed throw, which is not possible with the neutral VT.

UNBLOCKABLE CRITICAL ART - AFTER CORNER RESET

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3QHB0qb1sM

Must be timed so that the Critical Art hits 1 frame before Nadeshiko. The opponent can dash backward to avoid the CA but must still take the hit from Nadeshiko. Alternatively, he can forward jump out of the corner for the same result (except for Zangief and Birdie). Neutral/back jump gets hit by Nadeshiko + CA. If the opponent takes no action, only the Critical Art connects.

This isn’t a “real” tool against informed opponents, just an expensive gimmick that will only pay dividends against those who haven’t seen it. It’s mostly in here for educational purposes alone.

UNBLOCKABLE CRITICAL ART - AFTER THROW KNOCKDOWN (meaty on quick rise)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9k-7cRLGOI

Same.

INSTANT OVERHEAD COMBO (character specific)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S416SLa76aI

REVERSAL PUNISH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5MlEcGTqY#t=4870s

(1h 21m 10s)

MISC LEFT/RIGHT RESETS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhiy6xSwfjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZXzV_fECsM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmFl52HQhDs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFBaF9DzscI

OTHER

Like I said, this thread is very much WIP. I want to get around to talking about the most useful applications in detail later, much like I did with the first one above (although perhaps not quite as exhaustively), so that anyone can learn all they need to know about this move in one place. I think some of the setups in these various compilation videos should be broken down individually or rearranged into groups that have common applications (e.g. grouping together everything that can be done off a hard knockdown, or everything you can do after a specific reset, etc.) so that this information flows a little better and it can be easier for people to pick out specific things that they’re looking for.

Some optimal combo extensions would probably be worthwhile to add.

I also want to put a section here that goes into detail on meter management, specifically regarding V-Trigger. Off the top of my head, points to cover would be: sacrificing max-damage punishes for crush counter punishes instead (which builds V-meter), safe opportunities to use V-Skill, unsafe uses of V-Skill that are still worth it in certain circumstances (e.g. when the opponent’s only real punish is a low damage option that costs meter), quickly assessing the current situation to determine whether you should for low-damage guaranteed setups or high-damage escapable setups, etc.

If you’ve got anything to contribute, share it.


Rainbow Labs Inc.: a summary of Mika technology
#2

[post reserved for later, in case there’s a character limit I need to deal with]


#3

Great work to start with Sixfortyfive! Will be taking this all in this coming weekend and if I find any bit of tech will be sure to share.


#4

Are V-Trigger activations un-throwable? It seems that characters with quick V-Triggers can force her throw to whiff, then block Nadeshiko? Not sure if I’m timing this correctly though. I might be throwing before they get out of block stun.

I wish the damn hitbox viewer worked on my PC.

EDIT: Here’s what I’m talking about. The invincibility window seems really small though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om9uHgaHpFQ

EDIT 2: The invulnerability window can only be 1 to 2 frames. It’s impossible for it to last any longer than that, as the setup in that video was also timed to beat Ryu’s 3F jab.


#5

Apparently it’s 1f and not everyone in the cast has it, but I haven’t seen hard numbers on anything yet.