Nash Punish List (Necalli and Ryu Update, 8 of 17 complete)

nash

#1

Use this thread to post guaranteed punishes and punish attempt options. I will update the OP with finds if I deem them optimal or situationally relevant. Try to make note of key factors such as distance, set up potential, safety, or option selects when you can. Some optimal punishes will be left out if I feel a nearly optimal one is better in the face of other variables (EX: the best punish may be unsafe to a common cancelling of a move, but another punish is safer and comparable in damage and options).

For convenience I will be posting only the normal and command attacks up to the standardly comboable special, VT, CA cancel. EX: c.MP, b.MK/s.MP connects only at close range. I will post c.MP, b.MK/s,MP if will connect and only c.MP if it won’t. Only in cases where a specific cancel must be used will I post further. EX: s.HP will whiff h.SS at tip range, so I will note available cancels.

Terminology:
[list]
[] SS = Sonic Scythe
[
] MS = Moonsault Slash
[] SB = Sonic Boom
[
] TA = Tragedy Assault
[] VS = V-Skill
[
] VT = V-Trigger
[] f.VT = V-Trigger
[
] b.VT = V-Trigger
[] CA = Critical Art
[
] cc = Counter Crush
[/list]

Throw Punishes - Throw punishes listed are not guaranteed as they only mention cases of being at +(1f-3f) advantage. In a case where you can punish with a guaranteed throw, simply a s.LP or b.MK combo is better, so there is no reason to list. These punishes are free throw attempts that will only lose to jumping, invincible attacks, and of course throw breaks. Some of these can whiff if the opponent walks backwards or initiates a move the puts their hitbox out of range within that small 1f-3f window. These are a great way to punish attacks that are negative, but considered safe pressure tools.


Nash Combo/Tech Thread
RASHID Matchup Thread
#2

Wouldn’t this be better served in the matchup threads?


#3

maybe, if the mods feel it needs to be I hope this info is transposed. The degree of detail warrants being in the OP and i don’t know if it will be copy/pasted if I posted in there. I also feel match up knowledge can cover a lot based on neutral and offense theory with info one can’t quick glance like a punish chart. There’s also concerns of updating the info.


#4

Rashid Updated!


#5

Karin Updated!

Next:
Bison
Dhalsim
Birdie
F.A.N.G.


#6

Would be neat if you also showed the frame data on block of the move that is being punished.
Say a move is -9 on block, then write -9 on block after it, and then show below what can punish, and perhaps the corresponding startup frames of said punish as well to get an idea of how easy / hard it is to do that punish in time.


#7

I might later on. Currently that info is available for either end to reference or post. I think the bigger issue is it doesn’t cover distance and the amount of specifics on follow up I would have to cover. It can get a bit daunting (at some ranges, things like SB based on the normal you use become suspect). I’m trying to include what I deem as all the practical options, that said I will post a flow chart of interchangeable normals based on range as a loose guide. EX: s.MP and s.HP are nearly identical in hit box and differ by 1 frame. if s.HP would work, s.MP likely will (currently I have only found one case where it will not). I think SFs 3 frame buffer is rather forgiving so I considered frame perfect punishes to be reasonable for people to aspire too. Only on awkward punishes do I note easier punishes (like anti airing Karin, versus timing the grounded punish).

I’ll likely do it after i complete the guide and the 1st patch goes into effect. Bison will be posted tonight, maybe Dhalsim too.


#8

I think a punish thread is better than trying to find them all in each matchup thread. Good deal!


#9

Sorry for the delay on Bison, I have the data just need to transcribe it.


#10

I really like this thread. Very helpful. Thanks!


#11

Bison up! Sorry for the delay…that life thing happened. Just did Dhalsim’s as well need to transfer tomorrow.

I’ll be updating throw punishes too. Moves that are safe, but can be punished by throws if they do not commit to a jump, invincible move, grab break.


#12

Dhalsim updated (need to add how to interrupt air attacks)! Added throw punishes and an explanation as to what this means (these are not guaranteed, simply free attempts they must guess their way out of). I also need to add cases where EX and h.Tragedy Assault can punish projectiles (I just realized they have late lower hitbox invincibility to projectiles).

Birdie is next! If you have an requests please post. Obviously all characters will be done, but this takes time…so tell me if you want to see a specific character a little sooner than later.


#13

Birdie and F.A.N.G. update added. I can’t stress how disappointing punishing F.A.N.G. is. Most deal with very optimal situations of range and being quick to identify the moves between frame traps.

Ryu and Chun next!


#14

In the Dhalsim section do you mean ‘Yoga Fire’ instead of ‘Yoga Flame’? Yoga Flame on block is only -3, -2, +3, and -3 from LP to EX version and they cause a knockdown on hit.

Are you also accounting on normals done at range as well as they’re special cancel properties?


#15

I’ll double check, but more than likely a typo on my end. I’ll correct later.

I haven’t outlined special cancel window punishes on characters yet. I wanted to outline the basics of the roster, then circle back and fill in more technical data. It takes a lot of time to mine the data. Things posted are punishes of the move alone or any built in extensions such as target combos.


#16

Is there anything that we can CC from birdie? I’m sure I’m not daft enough to miss the timing from it, but I’m trying and I’ve yet to find a move that I can CC him for.


#17

would appreciate a punish list for necalli.
i have no idea how to fight him.


#18

Birdie doesn’t have a CC punishishable like the common SRKs. About the only move you can land a practical cc on is his Bull Revenger. In most cases it will be an anti-air, so you can only combo off of EX-TA. There is a tight timing that will lead to a standing combo, but I don’t recommend risking it unless you perfect the timing. Not all characters have guaranteed cc punishes on recovery or string combo inputs with interruptable gaps.

I could do him next since I haven’t gotten to Ryu/Chun yet. Hopefully I’ll map it out tonight.

When I finish all the characters I’m gonna make another pass as I’ve already seem some punishes I missed (particularly long range whiff punishes such as FANGs CA)


#19

Necalli and Ryu Updated. I’ll check for errors later as my notes were a bit messy and not fresh in mind by the time I typed them up.

Chun/Cammy next.