I really could do with some help regarding this matchup, I just don’t understand it at all.
no one really plays necro where I live, but the ones I face online always do the same shit in the corner, that spin punch to the drill kicks mixed up with the throw and that overhead thing, I just teleport or uppercut cause its a pain trying to parry out of that.
outside of that not too sure, maybe try and uppercut his limbs on reaction if hes trying to hit you from full screen? I dont like jumping too much in this match either.
You really have to be careful with his high Stun output, resets off a lot of things right into Super. Which really hurts a low Stun Bar, Low Health character in Akuma.
Far MP will beat your low pokes and hit confirm buffer right into Super 3.
If up close he can back LK fast, his target combo into MP again, and Super.
Back MK knee, goes into Super or any ground special he wants.
Though he doesn’t get much off his one true low cancellable move in LK, its still part of the corner/in close mixup.
Now, the throws. Those are really dangerous. Juggle possibilities off neutral/forward throws, or his command one that hits low - but can be blocked, which throws you over his head for a reset with MP where you may be forced to AirParry an SA1 Magna Storm. That command low when blocked is free Super punish for those who move horizontally quickly, since its very negative on block, so its a good time to Super Fireball maybe, or just get in 1st before something as cr MK xx setups may not hit if he’s at max range and not forced standing when hit with MK in retaliation.
& various things, just like the throw, can put you right in the corner from way mid screen. Even blocked Drill Kicks or Spin Knuckle have a lot of push back on block. Light Punch version is safe, he’s at plus frames, do not try to attack him in that situation.
Magna Storm or throw are some of his only options when he’s waking up. so be wary when he has SA1 stocked and stay out of his throw range, preferrably when he is in the corner also so he can’t use his quick backdash too.
Akuma has mobility and space control, in a more conventional way? than Necro has in a shrinking jumping hitbox, floaty jump, tricky feints that come at you, such as the spin knuckle, command normals like get off me elbows in back LP MP, DownBack HP elbow cannon.
Keep fireballs up for a reason, not just the wall for him to get around, space control, but mixups as an option in every situation as you try to pick your spots and stop the Spin Knuckle at the ranges he wants to use it to move in on you. Don’t get baited into fishing too often with air HK hurricane though that can take care of a jumpy Necro.
Stay on your toes as he has far reaching Fierce, stand Roundhouse covers your jump arc nearly fullscreen, and juggling potential back HP, vertical uppercut.
Rather than mixups off LK hurricane with reset without the meter, tend to go for the max damage then startup again considering he may be quick on the trigger to EX something, Electric SRK move, Magna Storm, throw mash and was hoping to be reset back to the ground. When you have meter, force him to eat some jab flipover SA1 “parry is the only escape now,” even better KKZ, no parry escape, while buffer far range MK to Super is there too, then start offense on his hard knockdown no tech roll.
Try to use your overheads meaty just the same, don’t forget close HK which makes no sound is an overhead can be helpful every now and again but only the 2nd hit will truly hit low crouch blockers thus there’s a delay in half the move startup added.
Divekicks and Demon Flip in may not help much if he’s ready to parry them or has you scouted. Use them after knockdown, preferrably the post SA1, side-switch your choice timing, but then you may have to block after getting in successfully so its still a risk if you want to try (land other side) crossup, meaty high / low confirms for another Super or knockdown again.
Try to make him deal with your offense. Condition him for low parry MK fishing at the right range, then far HP him for counter hit damage as he’s parrying low and not blocking anymore. Or wait, LK hurricane raw. Kara Throw. n.Jump Meaty fireball for him to deal with the incoming mixup of he parries, you can throw, you can overhead force 3 hits to parry, low if he blocks high, or finally Akuma juggle potential if he tries to jump out and is tagged air to air.
So far hp and lk tatsu beat his standing mp? If so that’s great, because my main problem in this matchup just seems to be scoring a knockdown (or indeed actually getting any damage at that range). Once I get the knockdown I’m ok.
As for air tatsu, I find that because of necro’s wierd jump arc, it doesn’t work very well unless you do it super late, but if you do that you’ll get hit by their jhk
Sorry didn’t really do specifics in countering things clean. Getting the knockdown. I wouldn’t know too much, just tried to run down Necro mixup options, specifically when you’re already cornered what to watchout for and Akuma stuff you’d probably know but might not remember in the moment due to being smothered. I asked someone else in PM to hurry his way in here for some of that since he’s better in this matchup than me.
So we can go to ESN’s site of frame data, hitboxes and more which I didn’t learn to use yet. Such as setup 1 character vs another to see the interactions, think Ive seen that linked before.
Akuma Far Fierce is 8 frames (startup), just like Necro MP.
Necro’s got, 1 active frame on it! Akuma has 4.
Then on block Even / 0. But his is a better hitbox. Akuma moves forward first as well with this one, a wide hittable box. stepping into Necro’s range before the Fierce Punch
So if you have to, use far MK to keep him at bay. cr MK before he does his MP to stuff it, or just not be in that range, losing cr MK cancels to do offense you might do on other characters, unless you’re ready to parry and will risk it. Or he doesn’t have meter, etc.
LK Hurricane only when you don’t think he’s looking for it. Changing your timing to mess him up. Hopefully, when you have him in the corner. Starts up too slow. Hurricanes should beat any lows he does. MK/HK version, fast as hell in 2 frames. Everyone online’s favorite, really, since it should equal a knockdown off any hit.
Missed cr LK Electric Shoryuken move xx Super is something he gets off that confirm. And Electric SRK stuff in general is a good anti air of his, prevents cross ups, if the right distance and version he can juggle off that for more damage.
I understand all his options/confirms/blockstrings I just don’t get how to deal with them.
Sorry for not stating that initially.
So we don’t go in circles and me talk too damn much, we can just start with one setup, one exchange, one move.
Explain how you’re thinking it a little bit too, why you did something vs what he did.
What beat you when you did something. If it keeps getting beat.
Ok, as a shoto used I’m used to fighting at or around the cr mk range. Problem is, I can’t really use cr mk vs necro because his st mp beats it clean and instant divekicks also beat it. Admitidly if I learnt to red parry the dive kick that would help, though I have difficulty doing it online By the time he executes the move I’m already in block stun and it all just goes down hill from there. Low pokes into spinning hooks pressure seems to really screw with me. Again red parrying that would help, but the problem is, depending on the spacing the first hit will either whiff or hit, thus totally screwing with your timing. You try and jump out of the corner and they do st mp or cr mp, try and teleport out and they super I block I get throw spammed.
Jumps, I really don’t like jumping in on Necro, his bhp seems really difficult to parry. Vs his jumpins, I feel like I should dash under more as air tatsu whiffs too much, problem is with dashing however is instant divekick pressure makes it dangerous.
The main problem I see is that once I get stuck in blockstun I can’t get out basically. It would be nice if there was more necro vs gouki matches out there, I aint been able to find shit though.
Air to air, while he may have the advantage, you still have many options yourself up there to trip him up with different spacing,
- Super Jump - both done “empty” looking out only for air parry and then landing if he doesn’t anti air*, then into low, throw, block, etc.
- Top of your jump, MK dive kick, change jump arc - even if its not to hit, you’re gaining ground. New positioning while he may be floating up there.
- Hurricane as said, he might HP smack you, n.Jump MP, tricky pull hittable area back HK, or drills to get away. Make sure to only do it within range you saw the right spacing. Know the jump arcs + Hurricane if it will reach him, if its too late don’t. Do a safer in air option
- Demon Flip variations, as said may not be useful besides (Dive) Kick version, landing recovery all but nullified when used right.
- Back HP arm one of Necro’s many active frame one’s in there saw, 4. And probably large vertical hitbox, shrunken hittable one for him if you do parry and have to land before a counter / punish. He might still be safe due to jump + parry momentum changed.
Yeah the way I’ve seen people beat online Necro is right away, 1-2 parry on Drills. Deal with it.
Because, yes, HK drill back LK->MP or crJab xx LP Spin knuckle seem to be airtight block strings or seem that way online.
HK drill on your wakeup can be both crossup, 1 hit 2nd won’t, eventhe player may not know but he’s commited and forced you to deal with it. How to deal with it?
Down Parry x 2 has been very successful.
HP SRK most invincibility, not so much as it can fly forward underneath him if not done Early enough. Nor would you have time if he did it meaty.
So if you have to block out all his volleys in a row for a reset of the situation, there is no shame in doing that. You might be put in the corner, but you aren’t dead yet. He might expect you to push buttons inbetween everything he does that may be a flowchart at times. Protect yourself from his throws just the same, tech / crouch tech, which carries less risk than variable parry timing due to online factors.
Seems to me, parrying dive kicks or red parrying really makes it difficult for him to start his blockstring pressure. Guess I’ll just have to practice that.
hopefully I don’t say anything redundant…
On the ground I think it helps to keep in mind Necro can’t really threaten you with low moves when he isn’t in range for c.lk*. His sweep and c.mk are slow and don’t lead into anything. MP isn’t really that devastating as long as you aren’t getting spammy with your c.mk’s. Make extra effort to whiff punish Necros MP so they don’t start spamming that move. It’s harder than it sounds. Necro can fight shotos on the ground decently, especially Ryu and Gouki, but its still even at worst.
Also when you are out of range of Necro’s MP, c.mp stuffs Necro’s long range, slow pokes really well. You can build meter with little fear of getting tagged.
Necro’s anti air is weird. He has really good answers for demon flip pressure, but a conventional jump angle is harder for him to deal with without a stocked SA1 (which he probably isn’t even using against Gouki anyway). Parrying FP (w/e version) isn’t as hard as you think but it was a bit weird for me at first too. I’m not encouraging jumping in a lot as a strategy but its good to know.
Air tatsu to fight necro is good, but imo if you aren’t confident in it, AA SA1 vs necro is so easy it really shouldn’t be a problem. With Necros floaty ass jump he really shouldn’t even think of jumping at you when you have an SA1 stocked.
Also its worth learning to red parry 3rd hit of electric snake. If you fail you take little damage and get knocked down, but you pretty much can’t punish this move otherwise, and its such an easy red parry (one of the few I got the first time I tried it) its just worth learning.
Lastly be careful with your fireballs. I recommend a generally defensive approach to this match, at least before you have a read on your opponent, but its easy to throw a bad air fb and get tagged by electric snake on your way down.
*I can’t hadou walk, but if you learn it it can be really strong in this situation
Thanks alot man.
I assume by hadou walk you mean walking forward fb?
I’ll do my best to help. I do feel like, relative to how common the character is/how good at the match-up your average American player is likely to be, I probably have better experience vs. Necro than any other character aside from perhaps Akuma himself.
It’s hard or me to make suggestions on how to deal with his blockstun/strings if you say you know all of his block strings/what’s safe, but I would say that if he keeps you in block stun long enough, he’s going to end up pushed away from you eventually, at which point, especially if you’re in the corner, there’s a good chance he will close the gap with either a drill or his hop overhead. I rarely find myself in a situation where I want to red parry the drill, actually… red parrying the hooks is pretty huge, of course, but as for the drill, I was pretty shocked when I accidentally parried it down one time. This is super important because it means when he does the straight down drill on wake-up, you don’t have to worry about whether it crosses up or not - just parry down. It’s not always easy to punish the drill even if you parry it because if it crosses up toward the end, you probably won’t get an autocorrect move out. I’m still working on it so don’t take it as gospel, but I find think just hitting fierce is the best option for punishing a parried drill.
Far fierce is pretty good for counterpoking his long range pokes. I think the occasional random LP shoryuken is really useful, too… if you can guess right and hit him out of a couple of his pokes, that will really scare him away from pressing a ton of buttons against you. If you throw that out smartly (e.g. being aware of his spacing, meter, tendencies), even if you whiff he’s unlikely to punish you very hard if at all. LP shoryuken is pretty good against his jump ins, too, and good to throw in during any over-the-top rushdown he might go for, provided he doesn’t have super and you aren’t close to stun.
Speaking of super, I don’t have a ton to say about Electric Snake, but if he chooses Magnetic Storm, once he gets Magnetic Storm, you really can’t jump in on him, ever, and since Necro obviously has a ton of ranged attacks, that means you’re probably going to be waiting for him to come to you rather than going for his throat. That super bar is really small, so if he doesn’t have super, it’s probably best to close ground on him as soon as you can, within reason, so that he doesn’t just whiff until he gets super and then have a major weapon against you (shit does a ton of damage against Akuma). Can’t even jump in air fireball against Magnetic Storm. Trying to bait it out is a good thing to keep in the back of your mind once he gets it, because it changes the match pretty dramatically. The timing on punishing it is a little tricky especially since he can choose how long to mash it, but you can hit a full combo from point blank, so that’s nice.
Getting a knockdown is pretty huge against Necro… he is somewhat helpless when he’s knocked down if he doesn’t have Magnetic Storm… Cornering him is huge because so much of Necro’s game is about his ability to space and zone with all of his long-range shite, and cornering him takes a lot of that away…
You can anti-air him with SA1, but you have to wait until you see him throw out an attack/are otherwise sure what he’s going to do in the air, because he can change his jump arc so easily, and he jumps so high. For the same reason, air tatsu isn’t too hot against him, unless he’s in the corner and jump up/back to avoid your pressure/to look for a way out, in which case go nuts.
What else… he can punish tatsus pretty easily, so don’t abuse them… definitely a fight where patience is an absolute must. That’s all I can think of right this minute. Would welcome any comments/questions etc.
Note - I agree with/defer to what Pherai said.
Redundan(t)cy is other Akumas!
Thanks for coming thru with the help guys. So eager to talk about what silly Necro can do, missed talking anti air, air to air MK (nJump HK) or something land first, Super 1. Basically, solid setups or BnB’s including Super. Tho what I just said is only a force parry.
Yeah. The only person I know who is American and is good at it is Vinny and he would get a lot of mileage out of it against characters where you can easily nullify the threat of low moves at mid range (Oro is a top candidate). I’m just really afraid of option parrying at mid range.
parry first hit of the drillkick and do jab shoryu.
I aint got the reactions to do that vs instant divekicks man.
Put a super air fb after your regular air fb.
If you’ve eaten a few Magnetic Storms from jump ins, especially getting caught with jump in air fb, you can trick him in to wasting a super bar and possibly winning a round if his life is low enough.
I’ve also seen it remove the suction part of that Super Art if it whiffs behind him, Air Zankuu Hadoken -> Air SA1, keeping Akuma safe to land. Maybe not giving time to punish due to it being a weird interaction variable highly with air SA1 spacing and momentum of the jump vs Magna Storm activate and cancel early when he sees his Super not hit, also this was a jump back if I remember that right. Hence not reliable but something to consider if put in that position (ie: cornered) when you committed to a jump.
Guy playing the Akuma I saw do that and I asked if he saw that played it off casually, or thought it no big deal heh.