Need Help: Problem vs Special spammer


#1

Hello, I recently picked up SSF4 since my friend dislike the structure of UMVC3 (he just hate faster paced honestly but oh well…). His main is Ryu and me being Ken / Akuma.

TL;DR I am still a scrub who can’t beat special spammer. And here goes the long version:

His strategy is quite straight forward that I can map them all out here:
ranked on %use.
1)Fireball spam, use EX whenever I max range trade a few for meter/ focus for ultra meter.
2)Tatsu, half-screen or start of rounds mostly. He then follow up with DP or throw.
3)j.HK->sweep.
4)light DP spam to pressure me to corner.
5)Jump lp->throw.
6)c.lp x2->throw.
7)Crouch block until I move in or attk, then sweep. Sometimes random sweep.
8)His wake-up game is space to bait my reversal / meatie fireball (I don’t even know if this is called meatie, but I have no option but block.), or repeat 1-7.
Note: He have no slightest idea or finesse to perform any FADC, and he can only do Ultra 1 on DP counter / when I FB.

Q: I have read and practiced on my bnb, footsie and fundamentals (basic frame data vs Ryu, etc.)
however all my match with him feels so different from even bad gameplay on youtube. While I’m doing pokes and punish on his DP or whiff, it feels like we are playing two different games where mine is based on normal and his specials.

How do I counter his playstyle? If the vet community call that a proper one.

Yes I also felt his jump-in are stupid to not anti-air, however I tried c.HP and different DP it all ended as a trade. execution problem? should I read it or gamble it since I feel like playing a rolling dice of 8 sides versus him.
So far we are 50/50 to win after a night long gaming section.

Below is more on mentality:
He is the type of players that would:
i)comment at the moment he got consecutive knock down on me / end of match up, saying “haha” “hit!” “missed! bahaha” “you are too offensive / defensive”, and “lol relax, it’s just a game” AFTER he won.
Personally I can take any lost in gaming. I played FPS, RTS and pvp in mmo(lol I know right?) so much that shadowed FG. Losing is part of my gaming cycle but this type of post-match comments are getting to my nerves. It just affect my performance alot as I can’t mute him like what I usually do across the internet.
I felt pointless to verbally telling him to STFU, instead I want to use my arcade stick to do the talking…but well…he turned the volume down to listen to my inputs too…


#2

You play Akuma and cant counter hadoken spam? Fierce shakunetsu. he’ll eventually get tired of eating two free counter hits when he throws hadokens randomly.
LP shoryu spam? Sweep on recovery. light doesn’t go very high and has a good number of delicious recovery frames. You also have a teleport you know, use it.
Turtles up waiting for you to move? You got lifelead, then fuck it. Let him sit there. If you don’t got lifelead, then you gotta play footsies a bit :confused:
I don’t play a ton of Akuma so I don’t got much else for you. You could always just be a dick and jump a lot throwing light zanku’s, it doesn’t sound like he’d know how to counter it anyway.


#3

Video? I mean, if the guy’s consistently beating you, maybe he’s not as bad as you think.


#4

the main idea behind street fighter is that whoever jumps first loses (this is less true in sf3, but still true enough) just out zone him. when youre in mid range walk back and forth trying to get him to whiff a sweep or jump in, when he sweeps, wait a sec then sweep him back before recovery, if he jumps shoryuken him.

if hes just outside your sweep range and he throws a fireball, you can typically jump at this moment assuming you time it correctly and land a combo. you can also FADC through a fireball and do something, assuming that you KNOW he has a pattern.

the reason your SRK is trading is probably due to timing and the fact that you may not be using the best one. Ryus best anti air srk is mp. Dunno what kens is. Might be mp


#5

Thanks for the replies. I’ll definitely try that with my akuma.
I’ll play him again later this week, will see if I can get a video down. (I can smell his reaction being “rofl video? Why so serious bro”

I did utilize the air fireballs as a counter to his max range spam. It worked until the next round. Think I have to diverse my game more.
Also I stopped jumping, almost at all after reading on SRK. That and proper high&low pokes got me some juicy win.
Again I’m not saying he’s bad, he just forgo all fundamentals and focus on specials and routines. Play to win :wink:

Just remembered that he do tatsu a lot, start of the round, random midrange, what frustrates me is that + a tick throw and I’m at the corner. I also have some trouble on options I have after he blocked my tatsu. As Ken I land right in front of him and often dp’ed.

I now skew my training times towards Ken as I found that he kept fall to my wake up ultra and I got more proficient to combo into it, where raging demon timings I still haven’t got a grasp. 60-90mins a day, bnb, block strings, FADC combo , and videos.


#6

don’t do wakeup ultras.


#7

For sure, I only do it on meaty fireball, somewhat random too since he started to bait it after few games. :slight_smile:


#8

you talk negatively about his play style but don’t realize things like wake up ultra are just as bad? the biggest problem is your way of thinking. Just because you have read about something doesnt mean you can apply it in a match, you have to practice. what i mean is this comment:

Q: I have read and practiced on my bnb, footsie and fundamentals (basic frame data vs Ryu, etc.)
then you say 4)light DP spam to pressure me to corner.

this type of spam if lag is ok, should not be a problem if you know frame data. go into training mode and record lp dps at random times, and punish each one with either crMK > Tatsu, or crHP > Tatsu. there are other punishes but start with the 1st one. i can garantee you he will be hard headed, but after you show him it will be punished everytime, he will stop it. he will actually become very angry:mad:. little improvements like this make you a better player, and improve your win rate.

also, if all he does on your wake up is meaty fireball or wait for your reversal, This is a good thing, what are you worried about? Just block. blocking a fireball is better than being put into a mix up, which might force a baited reversal. If he shows he has no mix ups, then there is no reason to do a reversal. Infact never do wake up reversals. As a learning process, i learnt to block and understand situations i was put in on wake up. It does a lot for your defense and learning a match up. When you get comfortable, then you can make educated guesses/reads on whether to reversal on wake up. I had a wake up call when i faced a fei long. he won most matches, but he didnt outplay me. i use abel, and i dominated most matches, but lost too much life on knock downs. His wake up pressure was immense, so i would do reversals on every knock down, like EX TT or EX roll. he was ready for all. So i said to myself, look at the amount of life im losing on wake up, Fei is not even a mix up character, why do i get desparate? After that set, wake up reversals is no longer an option for me unless i know i have a read on my opponent.

7)Crouch block until I move in or attk, then sweep. Sometimes random sweep.
Ken has a lot of frame tramps. if he sweeps after your block strings you can punish him. 1st a kara throw will beat the sweep. or after the string you can walk out of sweep range, pause for his sweep, then whiff punish his sweep with a sweep of your own. or you can simply cr.lp > cr.lp <frametrap> crHP/DP(2 bars) or whatever you like. dont just read it. go and implement it in training mode. Doing so will give you other ideas and techniques in your toolset. Never stick to the same thing.


#9
  1. punish with ex demon flip palm, focus dash forward to get in, or just throw fireballs back at him
  2. crouch, punish with cr.fp before he can DP or throw you.
  3. block. block block block.
  4. bait a DP, and punish the hell out of it with as much as you can
  5. block the LP, dp the throw attempt, or late crouch tech OS.
  6. see #5
  7. move in and bait him to sweep and focus it, or make him whiff by moving in and out of his sweep range, then punish him with something
  8. just block on wakeup if he is throwing meaty fireballs, there is no risk at all unless you are going to die from chip.

#10

Thanks for the helps everyone, quite a lot of things to work on now :wink:

On wake up games, if all he does is DP, apart from bait & punish, are there other options to keep the offensive pressure? Or I am forced to back into neutral.

P.S are the character specific match-up questions must be posted on respective forums?


#11

There are setups that makes dps whiff but from what I’m reading here you just need to start playing a lot more solid. If all he does is dp mash on wake up it should be free as hell.


#12

Crossups will snuff Reversal DP if you time it right.


#13

“Just remembered that he do tatsu a lot, start of the round, random midrange, what frustrates me is that + a tick throw and I’m at the corner. I also have some trouble on options I have after he blocked my tatsu. As Ken I land right in front of him and often dp’ed.”

^^^^^ just block low, he’ll go over you and you can punish with a SRK or if your not as confident, then fireball.

Street fighter is a game of opportunity, to you want to give your opponent few opportunities (which is why you wanna play 'safe and solid", know a hit confirm blockstring, and rarely do unsafe wakeup reversals [ultras,dps]), while taking the MOST advantage of the opportunities he gives you (using a good punish combo to consistantly get the most damage from a mistake he makes).

First piece of advice, would be hit training mode. Need to work on your anti airs? just record the dummy, and practice, see what ranges and button works best, and recognize when its too late to srk w/o trading (if thats what you want, us sagat players LOVE trades, its a free ultra every time).
Learn a hit confirm so at close range you can safely apply pressure.

Learn your options when you score a knockdown, so you can go for a mix up and keep your offensive momentum.

Recognize his patterns. If he isn’t going for a mix up when you get knocked down, (a tick throw, meaty throw, vs wake up pressure), then don’t press buttons! he’s letting you get up and regain your composure for free!!!

when you knock him down, does he do an unsafe wakeup you can punish? if so, go in tight and just block and punish the whiffed dp. If not freaking tick throw him to death, or when you learn your hit confirm hit him with that as he wakes up for meaty pressure.

Figure out the distance you are getting destroyed at and what you can do. Is he fireballing you? figure out your options to get inside (safely predict and jump over a fireball, Focus through it).

Ken’s got some amazing mix ups with his jump tatus, his kara throw, and his step kick. Figure out your tools, and learn how to use them, and remember we’re always here to help.

Don’t be discouraged, I remember being in seventh grade and getting so frustrated when my friend would destroy me with a jumping fierce kick/ sweep pressure. Don’t give up, try and learn from your losses, and keep it up!!!


#14

Play him super boring. Wait for the bad special then punish with the same combo over and over - show him that while he might keep you at bay with chip damage all day - you’re here to actually play some Street Fighter.


#15

Just had a f**ked up night with my friend. All DP punish are blocked and blockstring drop out (dat jab button!!) …the controls feel weird tonight…until I realized his new tv has hd lag…aka inputs are like playing on 2 yellow bars. Was wondering how could my inputs goes slower than online play :S
I got this.