Need help with comparative character graphs

Just looking for input on this in general, and for each character specifically.

As stated I’d like to keep discussion for each character in the separate threads I am making in their respective sub forums, and input on the idea in general in the above thread.

Also as stated, despite discussion in this thread being open to anyone it would help me separate the wheat from the chaff if each forum could appoint someone who knows what the hell they are talking about to give me the numbers to plug into my spread sheet.

My near useless dat for Abel:
Health Reversal/AA Zoning Rush Mix up Damage pot
Abel 5 2 2 4 4 4

Cheers.

AA is a 1 mixup and damage potential 5s imo

AA is definitely not a 1. More like a 4. Reversal and AA should not be grouped together - they’re two very different things.

If you read the description of the Reversal/ AA section in my main thread you will see that it is actually a clumping together of tools to deal with pressure; so reversals and AA moves, of course, but also dashes, rolls, runaway air tatsus, or any tool that allows a character to escape damage.

hmm… AA and Reversal being put together in a category for determining how good a character’s tools are for handling pressure?

With these two features in mind… what do we do when we have to rate a character whom can be said to excel in one area but do very poorly in the other?

how would we rate that? …For example: a hypothetical character with a rating of **5 **for anti-air and a 1 for anti-pressure reversals… One possible solution is that we could even it out
and if we did that the character would be averaged out to a 3.0…

but do we really want to say that?:wonder:

If we applied this to Abel, the similar problem comes up :slight_smile:

I’ma go ahead and call, “Inexperience” on Vital :nono:… Abel’s anti-air game is exceptional… Between 3-4 moves there is very little in anti-airing which he cannot handle… I give it a 4.

However… his options for handling up-close pressure is severely lacking… What’s abel supposed to do when he’s getting RUN DOWN by Seth or Akuma:sweat:?

EX COD? sure it’ll absorb a move but without extra meter to make it safe either character listed above can punish that pretty heavily… EX Roll? fine… but there are option selects to cover that as well… Back dash? same thing… so what should we give him for a rating? 2? 2.5?

So you see where i’m getting at? Abel’s ANTI-AIR game is very good!!! but his reversal options to deal with up close pressure is very poor… Mixing them together might distort how he performs in either field…

I think this shows that there is a great enough difference in these two categories in warranting them being separate statistics in rating characters…

I see your point, and I deliberated quite a bit initially on making reversals a stand alone category as the game favors them so much. After all is said and done I want 7 or 8 values total, so it is possible I may split them. Just not sure how at the moment…

If you look at my rating I gave him a 2, as I considered all of what you said. My goal is to average all of those scenarios to determine a value but if that is misleading or doesn’t present enough information I will certainly change it.

I’m hoping to get more of a dialouge on those subjects in the main thread, this will allow people not involved in each sub forum to give their input.

to get the ball rolling:

my thoughts after using abel almost exclusively for the duration of vanilla SF4
Reversal ---- 3.5 (ex roll, ex TT are both very useful)
AA ------------ 3.5 (he can hit AA fairly easily once you learn how, but doesn’t get a ton of damage off them)
Zoning ------- 3 (roll and step kick help him avoid zoning?)
Rush --------- 4.5 (you’re in the danger zone)
Mix up -------- 4.5 (still in that danger zone)
Dmg pot ----- 4.5 (it’s a pretty big danger zone)
Viability ------- 3.5 (a few important bad matchups keep him from being higher on this)

In AE right?

EDIT: I changed a couple values, the fact that I over-estimate Abel doesn’t mean everyone else does :smokin:

Reversal ---- 3
AA ------------ 3.5
Zoning ------- 3 (st.lk + cr.mk are your best friends, he has trouble zoning characters out that change trajectory mid-air)
Rush --------- 4
Mix up -------- 3.5 (yes, I don’t think his mixup is THAT ambiguous, characters have easy ways out and vs some characters you will be guessing more than them in your own mixups… his strenght lies in the damage he gets off them, not the mixup itself.
Dmg pot ----- 5
Viability ------- 3.5 (not the most viable, but he can definitely win tournaments if you play him right, and he can overcome most bad match-ups with help from his stupidly high damage potential)

well guys the authority has weighed in on this, thread over

thanks strider!

reversal-----2
AA------------4
Zoning-------3
Rush---------4
Mix up--------4
Damage-----5
Theme-------1 (It’s so bad)
Looks---------5 (sexy:lovin:

Cheers, Strider. I’ll update my data as well as the main thread to show that Abel is done, I just need to verify one point. Do you think the data stays the same regardless of Ultra choice? That would be averaged over all match ups.

U2 isn’t really viable, U1 is pretty much the more popular choice for every matchup

^ This - particularly in AE.