Do not want to character pick against Zangief however I am lacking the neccesary skill to take on a high level gief with Hakan. Need assistance with this please.
With Gief I mostly just try to play keep away. If he’s not trying to stop you from oiling, oil up as much as you can. Oil is going to help so much with BDNCing all of his throws and on both of your wake ups. You’re going to have to be careful though, because his new LP SPD range is fucking crazy. One of his main tools to stop you from oiling is going to be either green hand by itself or green hand into SPD.
So far my goal has been to find a good balance between making Gief respect Hakan’s beefy normal game (really make sure to use s./f.:hp:) and oiling up as much as possible. Any blocked green hand is an automatic punish, and make sure to use a good helping of wake up DDTs because he can’t do anything about it other than back dash or crouching normal.
I find jumping vertically to anticipate incoming green hand will catch him into j hk c mk slide combo, also mix that with charge up DDT in case he jumps around to try to get in. But if he’s cautious it’s hard to catch a whiffed green hand. I still have problem going against mediocre to good zangief too the jab n’ grab mix up is quite scary as well and he’s got one button anti air but I find if you have to jump in the chance for trading / beating the lariat is much higher with j. hk but someone might say otherwise. Also I haven’t tested this in AE version but did the post slide pres, whiff c.mp and vertical jump HP still stuff all his lariats? Cause i tried some of that in my online play and I got hit clean out of my stuffing attempt
Oil up and keep your distance. When oiled f.HK and knock him down then back off. Being to close will likely end with him grabbing you. Avoid the unoiled f.HK to a ultra 1, I always get caught in his throw. I seen some player jump a lot so remember you can air throw. If you see a green back hand or a lariats move oil slide him but be careful, if blocked you will be punished.
Use ultra one, if you see him pull out his ultra or super and hes next to you, mash that stick and get you ultra out it will beat his every time.
You really do have to keep Gief out, his mixup game just beats hakans, his spds beat hakans spds. So yes, keep him out. As one said before, meaty uncrouchable DDTs kill gief, also the HP button is your best friend. S.hp in particular blows up most if not all of his normals in footsies, beats most of his jump ins too except the one where he lays out. (Don’t know gief very well…) C.hp is a risky one if the gief knows the matchup, because its spd punishable on block, but it is a great normal to sneak under a lot of giefs normals, especially his I think HK he likes to do so much. C.mp if he gets closer is another good poke to use in the matchup. F.Hp again as a max range poke is great against Gief, in general, build a wall against that russian man. If you score a knock down do DDTs or try to bait stuff (with meaty slide and stuff like that). Lastly make sure you know get those reactions up to slide all the lariats. Make him scared to do it.
Its a very tough matchup for Hakan, and one of his weirder ones because you kinda have to play really lame, or be godlike at guessing/yomi.
gief is vulnerable to dive oki.
i’ve been using s.mk, jump over, lk oil dive as a mixup after dives…
once you land an oil dive on zangief, you have the chance to re-loop it into itself.
aside from U2, all of his reversal options get eaten by the dive. if he successfully vertical jumps or backdashes, you just change strengths to catch him using those options.
if an U2 is loaded, you can bait it on most knockdown by feigning dive into cc.
anti air wise, I’ve found that his c.mp beats alot of his aerials. coupled with s.F+lp, s.F+mp, and s.HP to round out the c.mp- His AA options are covered(its just finding which one works with which.)
I’m still fleshing it out. but i’ve brought this match to become 5/5. moving very close to 6/4 in my favor.
I would say the best advice in this match-up are fairly straight forward.
1) Don’t get cornered. I know this seems like a “well, duh” statement. But, considering Zang’s cross-up game, you can really get left without an option.
2) Don’t get tricked by random lariats. You’ll feel silly by getting baited by this.
3) Keep calm, and get baited. I know sometimes it seems like you should rush in and attack the bear man, but this isn’t always the case. Footsies are your friend here, as is being oiled. A lot. I mean, like, oily all the time. I know it is an odd thought, but you need to play Hakan a bit like Ibuki (who has a great advantage over Gief, in my opinion). Hit and run, but mostly, keep them guessing. Try to create patterns, then break them. Make the opponent think they can predict your next move.
4) Did I mention to oil up? Do it.
^I like most of that. Let me also add that you need to fight for every inch of space against Zangief. DO NOT just back away because that just leads to you getting cornered. Fight with those footsie normals like st hp, st mp, toward+mk, toward+lk buffer slide, toward+mp buffer slide, etc. If Gief backs up, move forward and fight for that space he just gave up like you were fighting for the space before it. I like u2 in this matchup, not really for crossups because Gief just so rarely gets them, but because his jump is wide and slow enough that you can react with it pretty well. I don’t like playing mixups on Gief with Drykan, I just don’t feel that he gets enough out of it, but with Oilkan I’ll take those risks because my wakeup options if I do get bopped are so much better.
I think it’s pretty even but I still think Gief has a slight advantage.
I agree. I feel like this is a match you kind of just have to suffer through and whittle down their health. I do like c.mk into oil slide when it can manage. This match always feel like the most awkward game of tug-of-war ever to me.
Frankly, trying to match command throws with Gief makes me nervous, so just out of that I would always suggest U2 (especially if you come across one of these new agey Zangiefs that use his AA ultra…freaks).
I’ve been meaning to ask you, UD, because i don’t think I’ve seen it yet: What are your thoughts on Hakan’s changes and test footage so far?
after having 100+ battles with med/high level geifs in the last few days/week, my opinion on this match-up is 50/50 if not in geifs favor.
hakan > turtle geif
attacking geif (if not greater) = hakan
-u2 is best imo, geif losses his cross up setup after knock hakan down = kills his momentum, plus you can reaction u2 on his jumps (some needs anticipation.)
-playing keep away game - using all the pokes UD mentioned and footsie.
-FADC/FDC back/parry(oiled) geifs j.mk
-anticipate and practice reaction punish to geif’s f.hk; c.lp/c.mk > slide punish.
-anticipate punish wiff green hand with c.mk > slide (easy punish when you are playing keep away)
for winning edge, u need to learn specific setups for uncrouchable dives once knock geif down
(as geifs only answer to this is backdash)
-otherwise this is a very stressed 40/60 match up… (geif only needs to do like 3 spd and 1 ultra to kill… so gay!)
-once they know to dashback on wake up, then u use setup with sliding to catch them ( > FDC if unsured of)
My additonal take:
-surprise/sneak in sometimes for a dry/oild grab - risky but also rewarding with a 300+ dmg (rocket + uncrouchable dive) & corner pressure