"Nem-Assists": The Nemesis Teambuilding/Assists Thread

nemesis-t-type

#465

Thing about Tron is that she needs certain assists to make her super effective. And yeah, that’s not too far off from Nemesis, but Tron I feel needs more from her assists and suffers more without them. Tron’s waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better at instant overheading than Nemesis, so having something like Deadpool or Felicia is just awesome. Imagine jL + Felicia and try blocking that. Tron combo extenders are definitely on the scaling side and tend to cost a lot for good damage, but I often see her getting a lot meter for various reasons when pros use her, so there might be something there. Another nice thing about Tron is that she actually has invincible supers, even if they are sort of ass at actually BEING invincible, but they’re faster than Nemesis. And she DOES have an invincible, fast grab which is probably very useful, especially compared to our lumbering zombie friend.

But Macaratti’s right, Nemesis simply has more. His zoning and keepaway are functional to good, his normals are drastically better, his DHC into someone is almost universally synergetic, his angles are astounding, and Tron’s impressive damage depends greatly on the assist backing her up. If Tron were assistsless, what would her damage be. Nice thing about Nemesis is that A) His reset options greatly increase damage even if scaling from something like Doom Beam happens, and B) He still gets a crap ton of damage off random hits without assists backing him up. If we’re talking about 1 meter damage, and using assists, I’m pretty sure Nemesis can match Tron’s damage in the certain instances involving the corner. motion51 is often churning out new corner combos that range from 750,000 with a slam and 935,000 without, using one meter and assists, so yeah.

Also, it’s 5 frames for L command grab, 3 for M and 1 for H


#466

woah, Tentacle slam H is 1 frame!? i never knew that!

but yeah, Gil’s pretty spot on.


#467
  1. I gotta watch motion’s videos more. Yowza.

  2. Something for Nem to be jealous of is Tron’s level 3 hyper. I wants that startup invincibility SO BAD.


#468

No, Tron’s is.

Nemesis is 7 for L, 20 for M/H


#469

what the fuck did people on here really say that Tron does low damage?

lol she does more than Nemmy with just 1 clakeyD assist off many more hitconfirms, and an combo extender assist for throws. srsly ppl Tron is shit, but at least MAKE SURE you know what you’re on about.

and most of these are probably suboptimal.


#470

ok, I see now. thought you were referring to nemesis. I knew it was too good to be true XD

aaaaaaaand there’s where I get exposed.

followed the link and took a look, and yeah, I was **wrong. **Her meter building is excellent, and her combos with an assist do some great damage. I feel like an idiot now. That’s what I get for dropping a character and continuing to think I know what I’m talking about XD. I still say her solo damage is a little gimped, but yeah, that assisted damage was legit.

my apologies for not doin’ my research folks.


#471

Her solo damage IS crap, mostly because she can’t OTG into Hyper without assists and all of her grounded combo extenders add a crap ton of scaling, such as Gustaff Fire. Tron’s damage has always stemmed from her chaining of Hypers more than anything else, as while she can reach high damage without hypers, doing so is often in rare instances. Her moves more or less function like Zero or Chun-Li, the initially look like they do no damage, but after a while you notice that their minimum scaling is pretty high because of the multiple hits. So on one hand she has heavy-level damage with the likes of jH or S or whatnot, and on the other she has Bonne Strike and Gustaff Fire that don’t do much but also don’t scale too hard. The reason she’s so assist dependand is that she can’t transition from one to the other without assists or perfect setups, and lets not even forget her issues with OTGing.


#472

yeah, that pretty much sums up my main issue with Tron. Her tech with assists is REALLY good, and really raises her usability, but if she’s left without an assist to use, or doesnt have any assists that have good combo synergy, then yeah, she’s rather gimped.

I will say, after watching some of those tron combo vids, her meter gain IS a fuckton better than I originally thought, so her not having meter to burn is a situation she wont have to worry about too much. it looked like most combos build at least 1 meter before the first use of a hyper.


#473

Sorry to stop the low-tier discussion, but there’s something I’m curious about. I watch a ton of House of Crack, and has anyone taken a look at Bum’s alt team? He used to run Spencer, but he runs Cap(Something, he barely uses cap assist), Arthur (Daggers), Nemesis(Launcher Slam). And yeah, that’s the order. So, I was thinkin’ what?! but after watching a few matches, I see what he was going for.

So, Cap in front gets a nice amount of extension for everything he owns with that launcher slam, and the assist makes his incoming mixup game pretty intense, actually. In addition, his choice of Spencer and now Cap for lead is really specific, because they both have that hyper that goes into knockdown, which means Bum has his same Haggar THC tech for his alts. The THC is…well, I’ve never seen so much damage in a single THC in my life, as in, it did 3/4’s of Dante’s hp by itself. That is INSANE! That Nemesis boot will always connect at the end of it, with or without Arthur’s Sonic Bracelet in the mix, which means extension, reliability, and even more damage. And you never get the Nem DHC, basically, with how Bum uses his hypers. I have watched a few sets with this team, and Nemesis rarely gets left as anchor, either. He usually switches in during the death of a character, then rushes down with Arthur daggers backing him up (a lot of the time Golden, too), which is a much better position for Nem than the opening of a match. Also, his Cap assist seems to be of the least use to the team, so Cap lead makes sense, but he foregoes the DHC problem of second-spot Nem by putting him in last (Arthur also has a very fun DHC). His Cap seems recent, because it is, but his Arthur is one of the best, and his Nem, while not jaw-dropping, is solid, and reads well.

I mean, all of us are in preference of Nemesis lead, because this is the character we know best (for most of us, anyway), and the character we wanna showcase, and assist really makes Nemesis as comfortable as the higher tier characters in movement and smacking people in the face. Nemesis second has also been shown to be pretty viable by Airtola, but that requires some more specific stuff, and you can’t rely on higher-damage DHC’s and multiple assists for Nemesis, not all the time, anyway. Is it possible that we could also make some “support Nemesis” teams that manage to still keep Nem with assists? With meter-building characters and some good Team Hyper tech, it seems possible to slap Nem at the end of a very specific team, as blasphemous as that sounds. I found one amazing example, from a man who knows this game inside and out. I’mma check this shit out over the summer, see what I can see.

Can anyone think of some other good team ideas to make use of this? My first thought that comes to mind is Dormammu, who has some intense THC damage, and likes the bounce. He can also get Nemesis a nice safe tag with his big Ball of Cheese, so Nem gets stuck as anchor less, and Dorm can fill the role of anchor pretty well. BRAINSTORMING TIME!!! Oh, and Storm might like it a bit, but that I’m less certain about.


#474

huh, mind linkin’ to some vids of this guy? I’d love to see him in action.

as for the setup, I can see that working fine. I think the reason it works is that he’s not using Nemesis in last as “anchor nemesis”, he simply has him in back because that’s the order that gives him the most control over his team. Most players don’t call in their last character unless it’s for a DHC kill, since the last character slot has been universally deemed “anchor” by almost everyone. Rather than playing by slots, he’s playing by the entire team.

My guess is, his game plan is to keep his whole team alive and kicking, and to be as fluid as possible, so there’s no “oh fuck, there goes my point character TIME TO EAT A COMEBACK” that happens on some teams.

I can dig that


#475

Bum is a freaking god despite not going to tourneys. About the Nemesis support idea, it sounds interesting. Perhaps if I start Dorm/Arthur/Nemesis, a good idea would be to do Stalking Flare, DHC into Golden Armor, and then hard-tag Nemesis in so the order becomes Nemesis/Dorm/Arthur with frame advantage and Golden Daggers.

Though the big problem is that Dorm on point can be iffy since he needs space to start and that space isn’t always available to him.


#476

I tried out Wesker/Dorm/Nem very recently, and though I don’t really play Wesker, and am very meh with Dorm, the team has some very obvious perks. Launcher Slam made every combo longer, that was a fun thing, and though I was entirely improvising my combos, the assists made it easier than I thought. On incoming, I managed to do some good stuff with launcher slam and crossunders with Wesker, and Dorm could probly do more on incoming with it. Every THC, two or three person, was very damaging, and I could always combo afterwards. Oh, and I actually really enjoyed pressing Dorm’s THC button on reaction to an opponent dashing or trying to zone. It’s a funny hit confirm, in a way, not the most efficient, but if you have meter to burn, it’s awesome. I got caught with Nem anchor from time to time, but mostly I usually switched in Nem when I killed a character with Dorm, or just threw out a stalking flare and raw-tagged.

Thing is that Nem/Dorm/Wesker is quite good, as well as Dorm/Nem/Wesker. Nemesis in last could work, but I’d probly want to learn what the hell I’m doing with the other members of my team first. But the big advantage is the THC, so I need to capitalize around that, otherwise why not start Nem point. Still trying to work this out in my head.


#477

there’s a video somewhere (that i can’t find) that is a few setups on incoming, Wesker teleport + Launcher Slam that iirc option selects into a throw or something like that. too bad i can’t find it =/

usually the only time i have Wesker out with Nemesis in the back is when someone tries to snap in Wesker; i just wing it on the incoming setups with Launcher Slam + a teleport and see what happens.


#478

damn, pretty sure i found it in my bookmarks but the video was removed.


#479

Speaking of Wesker, is it really important that Nemesis gets an OTG assist?


#480

Not terribly. Nemesis is in the boat of characters who benefit from it, but it isn’t needed that much. Gunshot lets Nemesis turn random launches and hits into reset setups, but the actually combo extension is rather poor compared to others, as Nemesis’s own combo extension and extended damage scaling is so good/poor respectively.


#481

assists I find nemesis benefits the most from are assists that work as projectiles/ tools for approaching AS WELL AS combo extenders.

that’s why I have so much love for drones


#482

not to state obvious old news over and over, but otg assists also let Nemesis do slightly more damage via cH/Rocket/BHR.

as for this off point Nem discussion, I play him second b/c my team is centered around Hulk.


#483

Yeah, if I’m able to tack a rocket into a hyper on a combo, I prefer that over RL slam H. It does more damage and scales better I find.


#484

rockets are to nemmy as unscaled vertical grabs are to spencer…the more you land the more damage youll output!
number of hits vs damage vs scaling nonsense…rockets are the shit!!!

in that regard i find ground bounce assists and certain wallbounce assists are great for getting massive damage with nemesis, sure he has his own toolset to get those things to happen on his own but why not throw out a rocket and assist call and get a free second rocket out of it?