meh, but cool. i never pay attention to tier lists.
I usually don’t care about the tier lists either, but I must say I was a little thrown off to see Gouken as 6/4 vs. Fuerte, Yun, Yang, and Oni. I thought those would be considered even. I never looked at any of those match ups thinking Gouken has a clear cut advantage, especially against Yun.
Viper top tier and still getting her ass smashed by Rog. Damn him.
Agreed this tier list cant be taken 2 seriously. Thats the only reason why I am not surprised that Sakura is so low
Hate to break it to you guys but this one is MUCH better than the old one made by a single seth player who left t-hawk on.
Some MU ratios are sketchy, but overall the placement is pretty decent.
Not sure why the “hate to break it to you guys” is applicable here.
we always considered Gouken mid tier at 2012. I agree that the character placement feels right, bar some.
This tier list is asscheeks, the srk one is better and even it isn’t that great.
AWESOME mid ranked just as I had him since Vanilla////
Let me start by first saying the “buffs” have changed how we approach matchups in AE12. To his credit they have made him more viable in a broader sense by giving him more tools and more reach in what has now been the strategic evolution of this game since sf4.
Yet his dive kick mixup WAS superior in SF4 applications of this particular aspect of his cardinal moveset wasnt fully evolved at that point and today it isnt relied on as much as it should be.
Flip throw was superior. No unblockables were made public so who knows if they existed, kongo was DEFinately more reliable yet there was just that minor mapping issue that maybe we could have gotten over in time with practice. General consensus was he just lacked hit confirms off lights and needed a 3 frame reversal.
He was underepped and not labbed enough. Who knows if we kept quiet about things what could have happened , im sure if we didnt suggest changes they would have thought about balance differently and may not removed or changed certain move properties i.e. kongo and or others.
The “buffs” didnt necessarily make GOUKEN “better”, rather all the TALK about what the last changes merely made Vanilla/SUPER/AE12 non GOUKEN players feel more confident in using this type of character.
Therefore, more people trying to learn him the more the community sees him , uses him, plays against him more, the better we get cause folks understand our shit more and play us harder as they adapt to his core abilities and playstyle and applications therof.
Im sure that comfirms and ex tatsu and Denjin being added gave him more applications so Im being contradictory I can see that now. They did make him a little better(cl.mp>cr.hp>ex palm is DEF a big yes), but what made him raise the ranks so much is that more people tried him and began LEARNING about his basic applications and found out hes not all that bad and marginally beasty at most times.
Conventional wisdom stocks for Gouken skyrocketed with the projections by FGC forecasters, just like the ECONOMY.
Lets face it hes not so different from vanilla/super, that and the anticipation of being “the most drastically changed character in the game” or howver it went, gave people a “magic feather” to cling to in AE 12 and folks were less reluctant to TRY him.
Thats just me tho…
Been using gouken since vanilla he’s really underrated. He fits my style bc I play third strike hardcore.
Well according to the list Gouken struggles vs almost everyone and that’s simply not true. When Gouken has issues, he has SERIOUS issues ie. Cammy, Blanka, Akuma and a good Adon player because all of his moves are armor breaking. I think if Gouken has a only a little trouble with a specific character other than the four I just mentioned its due to matchup knowledge. IMO
4 - 6 Seth
Sound about reasonable.
4 - 6 Viper
4 - 6 Cammy
4 - 6 Akuma
5-5 Fei long
I don’t know. feel like a 4-6. Fei Long can get in for free long as he have 1 EX bar, and Gouken have pretty much no answer for his command throw + frame trap pressure.
6 - 4 Rufus
5 - 5 Sagat
5 - 5 Balrogs
4 - 6 Adon
5 - 5 Ibuki
Feel like a 4 - 6. Ibuki’s mix up is not very scary verse Gouken since he can parry the unblockable, but Gouken pretty much can’t zone her long as she have one EX bar. and she have decent reversal.
4 - 6 Abel
Seem more like 5 - 5. Long as Gouken play solid Footies and not be too predicable, it is not a tough match to win. Sure Abel is hard to zone, but his move are not hard to bait and snuff.
4 - 6 Blanka
5 - 5 Makoto
5 - 5 Bison
5- 5 Ryu
6 - 4 Yun
I don’t know 6-4. seem like a 5-5. Yun is not nearly as easy to zone as Rufus.
Also don’t know about 6 - 4, seem closer to 5-5. Zangif is fairly easy to zone but Gouken have no way to get out once Zangif get in.
6 - 4 Dhalsim
5 - 5 Guile
4 - 6 Sakura
5 - 5 Chun Li
5- 5 Dee Jay
Seem closer to a 4 - 6. Dee Jay can get in anytime it want. Nothing can punish his slides and Gouken almost can’t safe jump him long as he have EX.
5 - 5 Juri
4 - 6 Rose
4 - 6 Guy
4 - 6 Cody
Don’t know about 4 -6 I think it is 5 -5.
6 - 4 Fuerte
6 - 4 Yang.
Maybe… not sure on this one.
6 - 4 Honda
5 - 5 Gen
5 - 5 Vega
6 - 4 Dudley
Er… think it is more 5 - 5. Long as Dudley know the match up, it is really hard to zone. Close up Gouken get eaten alive with him having so many armor break and safe options.
6 - 4 Oni
I think Oni is a little underrated. He have really good mix up and amazing reversal. If Ryu is 5 -5 not sure why he is 6 - 4. He is harder to zone then Ryu, more armor break move, and hearder to tag.
6 - 4 E-Ryu
Also a little underrated here. Think it is closer to 5-5.
5 -5 Hakkan
I think it is a 6 - 4
6 - 4 T Hawk
6 - 4 Dan
More like 5 -5. Dan have decent reversal and frame trap close up. Fairly difficult for Gouken to get out, also hard to zone, and have very good armor breaking.
6-4 Gouken’s favor vs yun, yang, dan and elf? fucking laughable. switch those around, at a minimum
6-4 Gouken’s favor vs eryu, oni, dudley, and rufus? 5-5 at best
5-5 against fei, bison, and sagat? LOL no 4-6 at best
This list is stupidity
Gouken and Seth should be 5-5. I can believe Fei only has a slight advantage against gouken. Dan v Gouken is NOT in dans favor. Ibuki is probably only 5-5
I used to agree, but after a few long match with some yun and get to understand the match up more I think yun really is just about 5 - 5. Same with Elf. It might feel like a struggle to get out once he get in, but that is the problem with -every- character. In fact. Gouken’s parry or EX GF on wake up actually scare the shit out of elf, cause you only need to guess right once to take a shit load of his life.
Gouken’s underrated lol. Even Inflitration switched to him and now plays him in the match-ups he feels not comfortable as Gouki. He has issues in some instances, but I don’t feel like he’s, say worser then Abel? But people for some reason think that a character with gimmicky mix-ups, bad normals, with no fireballs and no reversal whatsoever is, for some reason a better character then an old man with a DF (which means a build in mix-up, that can be made pretty safe as well, much better then the Change of Direction of the french wrestler), an amazing hadouken (the only downside to it - no instant two hitting one), a good set of normals (better then many other characters for sure), with monster damage and two useful ultras.
People just don’t like to invest time learning a tough character (he does require a lot of hard work to be successful with) especially folks in America, that’s why you see people play as Rufuse’s, Bisons, Sagats and other easy-mode characters out there (most of the time anyway).
Another problem is that he was pretty bad in vanilla, mostly though because people didn’t put even the slightest effort in inventing some technology with him, so people just kinda forgot about him and he became one of those ‘not tourney-valuable characters’ but for some reason Japanese players got a hang of themselfs and actually found out that Fei-Long and Cammy (which where in the same ‘not tourney-valuable characters’ category as Gouken was) are pretty bad-ass, while leaving Gouken mostly untouched. Guess it’s the same reason he’s still underrated, Fei-Long and Cammy take much less time to master, so why invest more time in Gouken, when you can learn someone slightly better in a much shorter period?
I would place Gouken in the middle B tier easily, he is a solid character, much more versatile then many other ‘top-tier’ characters lol.
I been playing Gouken for 2 years. Those match ups does not seem right at all. I am not saying Gouken didnt get any better. what kind of shit those Gouken players be doing I would love to see.
If anyone is paying attention to the tier list thread, Gouken right now is a top contender for dead last. I personally don’t think this is true. I feel there are some matchups that are slightly in Gouken’s favor and some shouldn’t be at an disadvantage. Chime in.
i take no notice of tiers really but i don’t believe we’re that bad.
I’ve seen LOADs of Goukens recently, nearly every person I beat on endless, seems to end up switching from whoever they were: Seth, Akuma, Makoto and switching to Gouken and trying to mirror match me. Not kidding.
It seems like everyones giving him a go.
And i was reading on the dudley forum how people think his Dive kick is broken as it beats just about everything.
Dudley: 6-4 in goukens favour? I don’t think so.
And I obviously play Gouken, i just can’t see where his lowness comes from, not to sound too big headed but I can confidently beat consistently anyone from
Low - mid/high tier.
(Maybe every character except a rare few: akuma, cammy but only because they’re top tier & anti gouken)
Maybe I am classing Gouken tier on my play vs others play of other characters, which might not be the same level.
Rather than the characters themselves. I’unno.
/big head mode off